I'm so upset when developers starts to say that mac books are better and faster, even with windows, just because of what? Magic?apple logo? Compare them with a dell xps 15 with i7hq, ssd on pci xpress and if you care about display the 4k version is far better than retina... And no osx it's not faster than windows 10, there are comparison on the same hardware... Come on developers, you suppose to know the basics... If you prefer the macbook for design, because it's cool, fashion, light apple logo, ui, it's ok... Feel free to use it. But don't say things not true

In my experience macs life expectancy is 2x if not 3x that of a pc counterpart. They may be more expensive, but they do seem to just keep on going.

I use a Mac because I like it more than a Windows PC #reasons

@boussi yeah personal reasons/preferences are fine ... I just don't like people that say they're the best, fastest, ecc... Not true (of course they compare with 300e pc)

@helloworld nope, if you compare on the SAME hardware, ven with apple shitty drivers for windows (on purpose) http://theinquirer.net/inquirer/...

Having used both know they both cater to different demographics and both have strengths and weaknesses.

One thing i cannot stand are fanboys of any platform as they are narrow minded and rude nearly all the time.

@dontbeevil this is a software comparison. Fuck all to do with my point.

I once bought a PC laptop with roughly the same specs as the MBP I had then for about a third of the price. Felt like a super bargain until I tried to use it :) Squeaky bendy chassis, crap touchpad and horrible screen - no one wants to use it. The XPS seems fabulous though - the only reason we don't have one of those is that it was a hassle ordering them online with Linux.

My 2008 MBP still runs fine without a single reinstall. Pop a SSD into it and it'll be really fun to use.

For me it's about the touchpad, magsafe, feel of the OS and the screens. Now that we've list magsafe, high gloss screens is annoying in the long run and Apple is (imho) messing up the OS I'm tempted moving to use Linux as my main OS again.

@Elkstorm same goes for me. I like the feeling of the product. The new touchpad is really nice, the screen is in most scenarios better than the one of other products on the market and the os is a more beautiful version of Linux.

@SirWindfield Yes after earlier using Ubuntu as my main OS for a few years and Debian on my dev VM + fooling around with a bunch of others I have to say that Apple pays a lot more attention to detail.

@Elkstorm definitely my favourite UI. Sadly gaming isn't that easy of osx...

I have, literally, never had an issue with any of my 2 Macs. On Windows, otherwise, one time I had to format & reinstall OS about 3 months after building the PC.

I'm not "defending" OS X, this is just my personal experience of why I develop a Mac. It just works lol.

It's probably due to Windows's register-based architecture...

Listen... it's like everything in life. Cars, sports teams, TVs, headphones - you name it. Some people have such an elevated view of their own opinion that they think the world will stop turning if they don't tell everyone how right they are about these things. Everyone just needs to make their own choices based on whatever evidence they can get their hands on.

@samk The voice of reason is far less entertaining than a good, wholesome rant.

@samk I actually think the whole "informed consumer" is a bit of a scam. We spend our lives researching which is the least crappy phone, cable TV, electric company, insurance, computer model etc. There are better ways to spend our time on the planet :)

@Elkstorm To a point, maybe. Some people get a kick out of that. They enjoy trying the different options and specs. That's fine and if they make a decision for them, excellent. But when they decide that their conclusion is the only possible one and decide to tell everyone who disagrees how stupid they are, then they become insufferable. Well all do many things anyone else might call a "waste of time"!! 😎

Fuck all these arguments. OSX has a rich and native bash terminal. End of discussion.

@jonjoe and it has vitamins 👌😄

I kind of prefer running Ubuntu on my old MBP but I swapped out the optical for a 1TB SSD and upgraded the RAM to 8GB and its running perfectly after 6 years of abuse.

@jonjoe I still prefer use GUI for everything :)

@SirWindfield and electrolytes!

@jonjoe No. It's not end of discussion. You have decided that one, single, individual feature of an OS makes you right. It doesn't. It makes it right for YOU, which is fine. I would guess that a small percentage - possibly less than 10% - of Mac users have ever opened Terminal. Unless you're being tongue-in-cheek and I'm taking you far too seriously (apologies if that's the case).

I apologise I assumed this was a community of developers.Thus we fit into that niche

@jonjoe "why the heck do they still deliver that black with its window nowadays? I mean seriously come on, we can find files with Finder too. No need to create an extra program for that. Why should I use something like that if I can do it the stylish way?"
Apple Consumer Paul Fisher, 23

@jonjoe sorry if I prefer to right click->commit->write message-> commit and push ... instead of 90's terminal, slowly digit all the commands, with the risk of misspell or don't remeber a command ... if only this make you a developer in 2016, we have a problem !

I do not have any problems against man, female, Paul's, called Fisher nor do I have anything against 23 year old apple consumers.

@jonjoe have you ever heard of bash for windows?

You shouldn't say that either. In MY experience, Macs are indeed faster, WAY more reliable, lasts 5x the time of a PC and never breaks randomly. I've had my share of PC's, never more

@presariox100 tbh the windows console feels clunky and quite useless (without mingw for example)

Feel free to use PC's; I want one too (for gaming)

@SithLord that's the only reason why I have a windows machine besides my mac.

@SirWindfield I know, right? My iMac runs most games (using Windows) at 50-80 FPS with low settings but I'd rather have some decent graphics too 😬

@SithLord ye, just bought a new machine for 1k, that think is wrecking games with ease. Got a good deal on a 1070 from a friend who got 2 (he sold one because he got them in a bundle like offer).

Played on a laptop earlier with GT710M graphics, it was enough to play league on medium to high at 60fps. But I couldn't (sadly) play tw3

Linux. Nuff said.

just out of curosity have u compared the version of processors on mac and xps?

@SithLord people stuck in 90's, with windows 9x I agree, less with XP, but I don't see a bluescreen on Windows since windows 7. While Windows quality improved, on the other side I saw the opposite: my colleagues saw this http://daniel.cohen.net/blog/... or an even better totally black screen few times ... cheers ;) p.s. and no if you compare with the SAME hardware, mac are not faster ... but feel free to believe it if you want

Wooooowww ladies chill haha. The OP deserves a medal for the level of trigger on this thread hahaha.

FYI windows bash is so new it's not worth using properly for at least another 6 months. Also until someone makes an alternative to iterm ( no; cygwin, commander, or git bash do not count) don't talk to me about bash windows.

if you truly value automation, workflow and efficiency Linux or OSX are your only options. Leave windows for gaming and the odd spreadsheet.

Also talking about operating systems performance is just stupid. Computer resource is so cheep now a days it's utterly irrelevant unless your doing hard core computer science.

Peace

@dontbeevil one more thought have u ever use a mac book for a week without using any other os and machine?

@rookiemaverick intel i7HQ on XPS 15 and i7U on XPS 13, I'm referring to XPS 15

@rookiemaverick unfortunately I had to use it even more times if I sum it ... but don't flip the topic guys. I wasn't talking about what's the best and I wasn't trying to change your PERSONAL preferences. I was talking just about the wrong definition of absolutely "best" and "fast" that doesn't fit, but apple fan, even developers keep using it.

@dontbeevil here is the irony there is no such thing called best , it depends on the situation and tradeoffs and fact. everyone has there own prespective and needs. and as per the needs we choose. I will not go to gorilla war without a snipper. or a war on a flat land without a machinegun.

@dontbeevil u too :)

Actually the best dev machine is Linux machine. Sadly, there is not a single good looking laptop with good enough hardware comes pre-installed with Linux that run as smooth as butter from the first time you boot it and deliver the same experience across developers. Therefore, Mac; because we compromise.

@jonjoe Fair point about us all being developers. But I'm not convinced even all of us will us bash day-to-day. It'll depend entirely what sort of development you do and what you background is. I started my current job less than a year ago and it was only then that I started using the CLI at all.

@helloworld in mine it's 2x to 3x less life than windows. I've seen a few months old MacBook take a shit.

I can understand normal people using Windows, but I kinda expected between devs more Linux-savvy people. PC does not mean Windows, Linux has many distros, you can make your own, etc. If you know enough about computers, OS means nothing. You can get same HW from Apple or any other manufacturer. The only real difference is the chassis. So the 'war' between Mac or PC seems really pointless, to me at least, specially between devs.

@helloworld on the contrary. all you need to do is reset (not complete) of your windows (takes about an hour) every year and your good to go.
idk about Mac so can't say, but Windows runs long if kept well.

My gaming desktop hasn't been formatted in 5 years, still works like a charm. It's my primary dev machine as well. I dont mind macs, but I do feel they are overpriced based on the specs. Getting a regular laptop and installing debian or ubuntu on it will be just as good, and you can get better specs.

Then again, I've never ran a mac as my primary machine, so I'm really just talking out of my ass. 🙄

@dontbeevil there are people that like Mac for design but the quality of a MBP is far superior to any equivalent laptop I ever worked with. I'm an android developer, with system administration background, OS level Linux programming experience and a decade long career in IT. I had used Linux 3 years as my personal and business machine and after I switched to Mac for a project I decided to never go back to PC as my business machine.

My reason is time - it just works, no much hassle, no useless configurations, no reinventing the wheel, no swapping problems. I can just do my job an carry on with my life. And I mean real life, friends, family, fun.

Is it better than Linux? Yes, it is in most cases. Is it faster? Technically maybe not but I don't waste time configuring it, don't need a degree in Sys Admin to make it work properly.

Is L better server? Yes but who cares? Is L better as a phone (Android)? I believe so but it has commercial backup.

You decide what is better for you.

@shasha have you tried thinkpad? I miss typing on it.. lol

System76 do amazing Linux laptops :)

@sage apple hardware is crap though

@zacpool hows that, when it performs so well? When it's so reliable and does not die in 1-3 years? I saved thousands of dollars by switching to Mac almost 6 years ago.. before, I was replacing expensive (1100$) PCs on a 1-2 year basis. Sure, costed me a few hundred dollars extra however I have not managed to see it behave horribly yet.

Sure, Macs are not fit for gaming (though I run 60-70 FPS in many demanding games; with low or medium settings - with a 2013 low-end iMac) and maybe looking at the components, they could take an upgrade, but crap? Fuck no.

Why waste time hating others choise? That's so weird.. and I RARELY see Apple users do it, only the other way around.. in my girlfriends school, they spend their time telling her that her choise of computer (MacBook) is sooo wrong. Not once, but quite often.

I don't dislike PC's. I'm even saving up for a beast of a gaming machine, which is, of cause not a Mac.

@SithLord I also fix computers on the side. MacBooks hardware has some major problems. most of the time pc problems are user error (drops, roughing it, bugs on the inside) sure occasionally the drop dead, which 90% of time is hard drive
Macs on the other hand, logic board majority of the time. those things just drop like flies

@tysa i had this performance problem with xp, so i jse to reinstall every six months... but since windows 7, i didn't need to reset my pc anymore, if you care of your pc and don't install stupid things, you're safe

@SithLord maybe this was true many years ago... there lot of good quality pc that cost even a bit less than a mac... of course if you compare a 1000$ pc to 2000$ mac, it's not fair :)

@dontbeevil I compare $1100 PC's to $1350 Macs :)

@zacpool there's always exception. I have a 2007 iMac, still going strong with up to date software. A PC laptop I bought around the same time, with very little use, packed in after 14 months and turned in to a coffee mat.

@tysa ? I was talking about hardware failure.

@helloworld hardware is more or less the same nowadays

@burungbangkai no, I dislike IBM/Lenovo laptops but that's personal. I've used HPs, Toshiba and Dell most of my adult life. But could not find better laptop than Mac. The quality and "it does its job" are just enough for me.

I was even anti Mac while at University but every developer starts his own Linux distro Mac just emproves with every new iteration.

Anyway, that's good that there are different systems.

@zacpool I was never dumn enough to try so I honestly don't know :)

@helloworld I don't compare imacs to laptops. iMac to pc desktop, usually hard drive deaths are the issue.

@zacpool not comparing specs or speed purely making a point about longevity.

I've had my Macbook for nearly 3 years I batter the hell out of it and max it daily nothing has ever gone wrong with it. That story holds true for everyone in my company.

Before I had that Macbook I had a 2010 Macbook air it lasted me 4 years before I had to upgrade. It's now my sister's and STILL kicks arse. That piece of kit is now the best part of a decade old and STILL holds up.

Macbooks are objectively solid.

@jonjoe I don't know what did you do guys with your pc (or they were really cheap) ... but all my not cheap pc easily last at least 5 years

I don't like people who say that PC's are faster, better or similar.. don't say stuff that's not true.

@SithLord A pc with linux can easily be better :-)

@yusijs a Mac with macOS can easily be better, too :)

@SithLord It can, but your statement was false - a pc running linux can beat a mac in several areas (excluding eye candy. macs are pretty af.)

@yusijs my statement was just to point out the stupidity of OP's logic.

I haven't tested a Linux PC vs a macOS Mac with exact same hardware, so I don't know which one is fastest, though you're very likely correct :-) I imagine Linux is far better performance-wise than Windows or macOS

@SithLord I didnt realize. this thread is so long now I couldnt be arsed scrolling down and up.. :p

Linux is as performant as you want it to be really. My rig at home dual boots linux and windows, and when I run the same code editor (vscode) with debugging, + server and dev frontend, linux still has like 80% free memory and barely touches the cpu. Win10 shits itself and lags like gaming CS on my ISDN did!

[1/2]

Ladies ... put away your handbags ;). FYI I have a macbook for dev and a huge gaming PC.

First and foremost there are two arguments here: "Mac vs PC for dev" & "Windows vs OSX vs Linux for dev".

The first argument is totally invalid. The hardware components are exactly the same they just have different configurations. So please STOP arguing over it. Its a mute point. If anything, in terms of platform, P gets the edge due to its customisability.

[continued in the next post]

[2/2]

The second argument is really easy.

Windows lacks a solid unix environment with support of a good package manager that is backed by a community. Until that happens it will always be the underdog.

Linux (Any GNU) is a fantastic raw OS thats highly configurable. If you like to tinker and min/max its great. and can be a powerhouse!

OSX has a unix base, has very highly polished apps and is highly customisable but you lose a lot of what makes linux amazing. What you get in return is polish

@divil try a precision trackpad with windows 10 and some notebooks like surfaces, dell xps....