Any fellow LGBT devs?

Particularly those that aren’t “stereotypical”?

Got any fun stories about how colleagues reacted to finding out?

Your tags gave me cancer.

'diversity in tech'.

I remember when LGBT people were just people and not unicorns.

@HelloUglyWorld

1. The tag already existed
2. It helps with the scope
3. You’re part of the problem.

@HelloUglyWorld and I say what I say while being a conservative voting libertarian type.

Not part of the SJW agenda thank you very much.

The tags help with discoverability and like it or not, tech has a diversity problem.

Not a problem that’s anyone’s fault, but one that’s reflected societally at large.

I’m interested in connecting with other LGBt members of this community.

Fuck me, right?

@Brolls What problem?

@Brolls I didn't ask you for your autobiography.

@HelloUglyWorld The problem that in my Software Engineering uni group of 26 or so people, there are exactly 0 girls 😧 (or anyone non-male fyi)

@HelloUglyWorld ah well.

“I remember when LGBT people were people and not unicorns”.

Nope. Still people.

The trouble with us is that our minority status is (usually) somewhat hidden, and like it or not, there usually exists a heteronormative culture and assumptions are made in the workplace (and I understand why, it’s a numbers game, I ain’t mad).

The problem is that straight people find it easier to gel into a group because they haven’t got this huge “what if they don’t like me because of this?” hanging over them.

The most they tend to have to worry about bonding over is shared interests.

Ours is literally a part of our identity, and that can be extremely challenging, *especially* if you’re the only one in the team / office.

Just try to think and have a bit more compassion and empathy, is that so hard?

Don’t assume your lived experiences translate to others.

And what your comment really says is:

“I remember when I didn’t know, and I liked it”

@Kodnot So you are saying that it's because women are discriminated against?

@Brolls TL;DR.

@HelloUglyWorld No, I'm not. However, I would claim that, at least in my country, people do still think that a programmer girl is "strange", and this reduces the number of girls who choose this field. Is this bad? Well, for me, yes, because it lowers my chances of finding a partner who is interested in the same shit that I am lol

@Kodnot I highly doubt that women don't go into programming purely because someone else thinks it's 'strange' for them to program.

If someone cares more about their public image rather than happiness - their loss, programming is fun and gender-independent.

.

@HelloUglyWorld I never said 'purely', I just said that it contributes to the result.
And it's not just about your public image. I imagine it's pretty lonely and annoying to be the only female in a 20 or so male group. It's a never ending cycle, less girls in tech -> less motivation for girls to go to tech -> even less girls in tech

@Kodnot I don't think it works like that - it's not logical to assume that women don't go into tech because there aren't enough women in it.

Just take another case - why do you think there are only 9% of men in nursing? Do you think it's because 'there aren't enough men in nursing in general' or because men tend to have different interests?

@HelloUglyWorld Again, the motivations of people are complex, not simply determined by one or two factors. But yes, I would say that the number of males in the nursing field is reduced both by the fact that nursing is considered a feminine job, and by the lack of males in the field. Maybe not by a lot, but still reduced.

Saying X is not diverse because Y group doesn't want to do it is such a stupid and unproductive thing to do, this world will never be 25% white 25% black 25% asian 25% lgbt or whatever you/anyone else wants it to be, it's gonna be exactly how everything this, you want do X fucking do X instead of wasting your time that population Y is unrepresented. Have you seen women/straight men complain about the best clothes designers/chefs or any other artistic branch being dominated by gay men? I haven't, know why? Cause the do not fucking care and if they did care, they would just do that instead of complaining about it. Are you gay? Good for you? Are you a dev? Even better! Will you start socially dissecting the world cause it's now what you want and think that's what other people want? With that, I have a problem. I don't go around asking people who eat spicy why they do it just because I know spicy food is unrepresented in Europe or some shit, that would be a waste of time and stupid.

@securiter Well someone is triggered

@Kodnot I think you have a flawed view of the world. Barelly anyone cares about others when picking their career.

Have you ever heard anyone unironically say: 'I enjoy programming.. BUT THERE ARE SO LITTLE WOMEN IN THAT FIELD.. I guess I'll have to become a nurse'.

@securiter total false equivalences.

Yes, differences in interests accounts for the majority of it I would imagine.

But no doubt there are those who avoid certain things due to how things are perceived. It happens.

It isn’t universal, and nobody is arguing that there needs to be equal proportionality (at least not anyone sensible).

I come from a position of dialogue and wanting to work out why certain things are they way they are, and if there’s any way to help resolve any issues there might be.

But I think it’s safe to say that certain industries and groups do hold certain general attitudes that do put outside participation at a disadvantage.

I just think it’s interesting.

Not trying to preach or force anything.

Just interested in connecting with fellow LGBT devs and hearing their stories.

Did not intend this to turn into a discussion.

But I suppose I should have known better than to raise the topic of diversity in this community.

@HelloUglyWorld Well, I have acquaintances who went to marketing instead of some tech field purely because there are a lot of girls in the former, so yes lol

@HelloUglyWorld not so severe as that. No. But I have had female devs tell me that they’ve found it hard to solidify their place in the industry.

They have a rough time in a male dominated culture in the office as it is, without being excluded and objectified by those they would like to see as their equals that do the same job.

It can put people off.

Hi im lgbt and your post gave me cancer

@Brolls It's hilarious how self-righteous you are.

Your posts can be easily summarized by this structure:

[huge paragraph of text that brings out no point or argument]

[a small note 'I guess I SHOULD have KNOWN how MORALLY inferior YOU PEOPLE ARE *spits*'.]

(Hyperbolizing for humourous value)

@sharktits good for you.

@Kodnot That's anegdotal argument.

I have friends that went into tech instead of marketting because there aren't a lot of women in it - your point being?

@Brolls Cancer is actually bad you know.

@HelloUglyWorld You asked for an anecdotal argument though?... By saying "Have you ever heard anyone unironically say... "? 😅

@Kodnot You are correct, good point.

@Kodnot triggered? Not by a long shot, I'm as calm as possible and I'm quite tolerant, I don't dislike any races/sexual orientations/genders, I'm quite capable of understanding everyone's particularities but what I do dislike is attention seeking/whoring and wasting people's time with your false problems while people are dying of hunger/violence/war/cancer/anything.

@securiter Then why are you a part of this community? Isn't the point of DevRant sharing your thoughts & hardships for validation (aka a form of attention seeking)? I dislike identity politics as much as the next guy, but no rant will solve world hunger, so this random topic is as valid as any other, isn't it?

@Brolls you want to be gay and a dev? Good, you do that! While at it, be the best dev ever, make this world a better place! I have friends and acquaintances who are LGBT, we became friends because of what we shared not because of what differentiated us, their sexual orientation doesn't matter. Also, regarding your question if there are other gay devs, I'm sure there are, probably doing more productive work than you and I right now!

@securiter just because they’re not problems for you, doesn’t mean they’re not problems.

Of course perspective is always helpful, but it doesn’t mean they’re not real.

And nobody here was whoring or attention seeking, it was literally an attempt to connect and then it was jumped on.

@Kodnot Yea, sort of but wouldn't you agree that we, as a developer community (which is how this whole thing is defined) should be more interested in factual/technological issues, this just has the word developer in it and everything else is LGBT. I'm sure there are lgbt devs out there and their experience is similar to op, it's part of the social classification. Anyhow, I particularly dislike people seeking attention and unfortunately members of the LGBT community are quite good at that. I wouldn't say I'm old here but this is one of the divisional posts I have seen, even apple vs theWorld is usually less volatile than most communities.

@Brolls It looks like you were tho.

Making posts like this is equivalent to liking posts on facebook that have 'Like this post if you are against people dying due to lack of water in africa'.

@HelloUglyWorld how? It was literally an attempt to connect over shared experiences.

I tagged it with the diversity tag because I knew it would increase visibility to the community.

@Brolls Why do you need to connect? Do you need help?

@HelloUglyWorld I don’t meet many lgbt devs.

This is a dev community.

Was interested in hearing stories from them.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

It’s no different from searching out other groups based on commonalities or differences.

I really don’t see what the big deal is, or why this was met with the response it received?

@Brolls I'm sure that if you're looking into people who have had bad experiences with coming out, it's due to crappy people who care about them only through the prism of their sexuality, which is bad, therefore shitty people. Same thing applies the other way around. Qualitative people don't care about your gender, color, anything else but what you can bring to the table. That's how I feel it.

@securiter thank you. That’s actually a really salient point.

I feel the same way.

Sexuality isn’t the primary thing here, it isn’t a defining part of my identity, but it is a part of it, as it does colour your experience of the world - perhaps less noticeably for heterosexuals (I wouldn’t know), I can only go on my own experience and that of others.

It can be immensely hard coming out in a professional setting, and I was just interested in hearing stories. Good and bad.

Slightly related but i don't care whether you are are gay, lesbian, trans or identify as a fucking smartphone, as long as you're nice to me, I'll be nice to you!

If someone makes fun of you/bullies you/says nasty things about you just because of that, I'll stand up for you because fuck those people.

I was raised with the principle of accepting people as they are and I can't fucking stand it when people don't do that.

Just for the record as well, I'm straight as fuck!

That "group" thing is part of humanity as long as it exists. It will always be harder for people outside of the dominant group, that's not desirable, but the truth. It makes no sense to discuss if it really is harder for women or lbtg-people in a male dominated territory. That's how grouping works. Would work the same way with changed roles.

That doesn't excuse any kind if misbehavior or bullying. Every human with no braindamage has the self consciousness to understand what hurts himself, which means he understands what hurts others.

That's the basis of morality, completely independent from culture and society.

@CWins I agree with the general sentiment. But I’d argue that it is important to discuss it.

We don’t seem to question it when it comes to race these days, so other classes should be included too.

I do think it goes a touch too far sometimes, and can get pretty prescriptive.

Nothing wrong with being aware of the other side, and helping people see the issues and to help deconstruct some of the biases.

I like how a lighthearted post turned into a clusterfuck of opinions and politics (lighten up).

Anyways, most people I've met have been totally fine when they find out I'm gay. No-one would really know if I didn't tell them, but when I do they're not all that surprised.

Being gay would be helpful to find dates within my major, but I was already dating before I went to college, so no real advantage there.

It's not necessarily a gay thing, but being able to see how thirsty some of the guys are at school is pretty cringe-worthy, makes me very glad I'm not a girl in CS.

The best stories are definitely when people try and talk to me about picking up hot chicks and they turn to me and say "know what I'm saying?" I just smile and nod.

@voxibanez same sort of thing here. I once had a taxi driver see a woman who worked at a theme park walking in the street and remarked “I’d like a ride on that if you know what I mean?!” I just smiled and nodded 😂

And yeah. It really did descend into a clusterfuck.

@Brolls I used to work for my town's DPW (Department of Public Works) in high school. Basically the town's landscapers.

The shit they said about women they passed by was so bad (anyone from age 16-50), I had to just sit there and agree because they're very much the type that wouldn't want to even look at me if I told them I was gay. "Hey look at that fine piece of ass, would really like to get inside that, right?"

And people wonder why we raise the issue of culture and attitudes.

It’s important. We’re not preaching. We just want people to be aware.

And this shit has a fucking impact on us. Being paranoid about being outed fucking sucks. Especially in the workplace because it’s your fucking source of income.

I’ve also had a cleaner at my uni tell the flat of guys I was with to watch out for me in the showers. How the fuck she knew I’ll never know.

Also had a few “faggot” and “that’s so gay” instances in the workplace and some mild bullying for it before.

Every new workplace always brings nerves. I don’t see how people don’t appreciate the “here we fucking go again...” bullshit women and other minorities have to deal with when starting a new job.

I know it’s easy to just assume things are a certain way when you’re in the majority (similar phenomena happens with tall and attractive people), but can they really be that blinkered to other people’s experiences?

@Brolls I've never gotten bullied from it in the workplace or in school, but being gay is definitely a punchline of a lot of jokes at school which can be annoying and cringe worthy most of the time. I've had at least one friend that calls me a faggot when he's genuinely mad at me, so thats fun.

Alot of people don't even consider that the workplace has its own culture, especially if that culture already matched their own when they got there. So when people come in and are put off by the culture of the workplace, they just scoff and say "get used to it", without realizing where the other person is coming from.

It can be annoying for sure, but my approach has been to not let anyone know I have a boyfriend unless specifically asked or my boyfriend is with me. It may lead to some awkward relationships when they find out but it's definitely better short-term, I don't even know how long I'll be at this company anyways.

@voxibanez yeah. Fly low, make friends has been my strategy too.

That way the ball is squarely in their court when it eventually comes out, them then choosing to be a dick really makes quite a spectacle.

And same, I still to this day (when I’m not single fml) find saying “my boyfriend” weird in those sorts of contexts.

@Kodnot am I missing something or is non-male the same as female?

@j4cobgarby These days? You never know... Maybe some person who is genderless (I know it's very rare) will come raging that I did not include him in my comment 🙄 Though in the context of this comment thread, I meant all straight males (no women, no lgbt afaik)