So many people are applying for computer science majors that it's making me nervous.

My classmates don't know shit about tech yet almost all of them are applying for CS. It's even the most popular ranked major in the US.

I don't think I stand a chance against them. They all have higher GPAs than me, and they participate in clubs and sports.

If those cave people get accepted I'm not going to be too happy about it.

They don't stand a chance in class.
Let them apply and later fall flat on their face.

@PrivateGER
You think so? I certainly hope they suffer. I don't hate them or anything, but I've been learning on my own for about 5 years, and they don't even know what HTML is.

I absolutely want them to suffer if they apply.

On a side note, my grammer is really bad in this post. It's what I get for ranting late at night. :/

@Michelle Oh, don't worry. CS classes require you to learn on your own.
I can tell they wont do that.

@Michelle
In the same boat as you, waiting for a response from my local University.

But just to cover a point, took a year off from school, but my friend got accepted into the University last year for CS and he’s not into CS at all and still isn’t. I can guarantee you that he plus the others I know in the same boat have suffered a lot, some worse than others as some are now in academic probation.

So yes, 99% they will suffer if they’re not into CS. Atleast from my experience 😂

I don't get it, isn't it great that people are willing to explore CS, regardless of their previous experience?

@PrivateGER I didn't know anything about CS before applying. Now in my final year and at the top of the class. About 50% of the class had no can knowledge in year 1.

@kenners You probably were motivated to learn stuff, you know.
Most are not.

Moroans, they are all hypsters trying to be cool and doing coll stuff with macs ....

you will crush them !

And beside of that, i am a recruiter, and GPA does mean shit to me.

Make a perfect resume, try not to lie, don't be too much self confident.

Be smart and dynamic.

The others will be thrown off, guaranteed.

Don't worry Michelle, I am experiencing exactly the same thing but be assured that most people who have no idea about computers and programming will fail in the first term.

Same here in my country where everyone applies for compsci majors, yet I realized that many of them fail or succeed but are really bad at their jobs, when it is time for you to go to uni show them your github profile and some projects and that will dramatically increase the probability of you getting accepted.

Good thing I am going to study CCE

Not everyone has been studying on their own for 5 years prior to going to school. I know I didn't - but *somehow* graduated top of my class with several job offers.

It's not a good thing to get ahead by trying to put everyone else down. If they can't handle it they'll wash out.

It's still amazing... I wanted CS major 10yrs ago... Parents says get a finance one... Now everyone wants CS

@Michelle When I entered my study (shitloads of applications, not many get in), quite some "bullshit" people got in.

After 3-4 months our mentor exploded at a few of them saying "this isn't a fucking joke, either start being serious or you're out."

4-5 people didn't show up the next week, the people who actually worked hard kept on going :)

@linuxxx been nerdy or geeky isn't for everyone ....

@grubbering What's your point exactly? :)

I had no idea what Computer Science or real programming is but my relative recommended it to me when applying for college. It wasn't really that super hot or super cool during those days like it is now. Now I love what I do. But I get what you're saying. Those "I'm taking CS because I'm a gamer" type..

@Python
But the thing is, if everyone applys for CS, I won't get in.

It's competitive, which is why I don't want any of them to apply.

@Michelle yes just like technical interviews, u will rarely use the shit but u need it to get in....

Also the only reason I regret not getting a CS degree... 4yrs of mandatory practice...

@billgates
So you're saying you don't have a CS degree and the only reason why you want it is to have 4 years of practice?

Sorry. I didn't sleep last night so I have no idea what you said.

I hope you get in.

@Michelle Also, what's your discord?

@Cyanide
Thank you. <3

@Cyanide
I'll log in really quick. I don't know it.

@Michelle Haha. OK :)

@Cyanide
Michelle #0933

Good luck starting a conversation. At this point, almost every one knows that I don't log in that often. Maybe once every two weeks lol. xD

Most of the ‘computer business’ is about working with people and putting up with tons of horse shit. Unless you’re working by yourself in a room on algorithms - personality is going to be just as important - if not more important than CS by the time you’re actually in the workforce.

@sheriffderek
You mean I actually have to work with people??
But isn't it sort of a solo career type of thing?

@linuxxx i mean, not everyone can get into compsci, it must something that you really want, you have to be really loving it, if you join just for fun, or because nothing else is interesting, you are doomed to fail.

@Michelle I'll try :)

@Michelle they will suffer, no doubt. It's not that uncommon for cavemen to apply for CS, 25-30 out of the 35 people in my class knew nothing about tech. 5 already dropped out, a large portion of the people left are trying to just learn and do enough to graduate, and the ones that actually have taken it seriously and gotten a hang of it all are very promising. The way i see it is that at first there's a huge variety of people, from complete cave people to young professionals, but they all get assessed within a few months to a year. The weakest drop out, the remaining weak ones struggle and will probably not succeed at learning or developing the right mindset, and the rest usually actually develop themselves to be above average. At least that's what I've notes from my own experiences.

@Python Applying for CS in a competitive environment isn't the same as having an interest in CS. One should at least have some prior experience with it, and should actually be interested in the field, rather than the fat stacks they think they'll start earning after graduating. The mindset of most of my schoolmates is exactly that - get a diploma in a field that pays well, without putting in the time to actually master that profession.

Why the hell do you need a CS degree for? You can be a pretty good programmer without a single day in a CS college

@lookatmyhorse for recruiters like me, you can be good but will miss some important stuff

@grubbering I'm not sure I'm following. Are you recruiting based on degree or are you saying that without a CS degree I'll have major holes in my knowledge?

@Michelle yea 4yrs of practicing n the CS title to get past technical interviews. All technical interviews as far as I can tell just test how well you can solve textbook problems... plus some SQL...

How well can you actually code. Is it maintenable and not a pile of shit? Not important....

@yizBoi
Ah, okay. That's comforting to hear. Thanks. :)

@billgates
Oh, well damn it.

I guess I've been practicing the wrongs things. That kind of sucks. I mean, what if someone can solve a few problems but is actually a shitty programmer who writes unnecessarily complex code with no documentation?

They're testing all the wrong stuff. :/

@Michelle yea Just cuz some kid can tell you how to implement a red black tree or how X sort works doesn't mean he'll use it...

When the interviewers go... Yes we know after this question we will use is list.Sort()

THEN WHY THE FUCK DO YOU EVEN CARE!!! ASK ME AN ACTUAL QUESTION THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS....

My team actually has a lot of CS grads but it's a bank

I think theres a reason why I'm not asked to do code reviews... Or we do any at all...

@lookatmyhorse I am saying both, let me explain :

- When you have a CS degree, i am sure that you know what i mean by "comenting" or "documenting" a code.

I know that, if i give you a piece of shit code, you have what is required to turn it to a master piece as long as you have a minimum of experience.

- When you don't have a CS degree, i have to test you more on what you can do, and specifically how you do it, i have to double check for documentation and comments, and need to check your work methodology.

My personal experience teached me that a self-maid dev won't do the same researches as a CS dev, i hate to think about it, but it is the way it is.

I love self-maid devs, their biggest advantage is the way they see programming, they will always bring original solutions, and take different paths to achieve their goal, and deliver a work.

@ArchLinux
Thanks. I certainly hope that will be the case. :)

Thank you. I also hope I get in!

@grubbering my team don't document... I'm the only one without a CS degree and I'm usually yelling at them to create docs so we can reduce the bus factor. I'm pretty much the only one I think that uses that term and also "technical debt"

If they actually recognised these problems it would make my life easier... Because I'm usually the one asked to clean up code that blows up in prod.... Cuz I'm the only one that can come closest to figuring out what some monkey shit supposedly should be doing

@Python indeed, it is weird.

In highly competitive environment the less fit people will fall flat.

Think more on how you can make the best of you want to accomplish than what everyone else wants to do.

@shackra yea for me now I don't really care as I get paid enough but I'm not really doing as much as I could be doing... Not much growth.

And then I see monkeys getting nicer jobs and I go wtf? get sorts depressed... Til I find something interesting I want to work on myself... But these side projects haven't and probably won't help much in landing one of these jobs cuz answering technical questions > actual experience...

It sorta feels like basically just asking, "hey so are you part of the club? What's the secret handshake?"

@sunfishcc is there a typo?

Out of curiosity, do graduate CS programs suffer from the same oversaturation?

I'm sitting on degrees in English and Philosophy and pretty damn nervous about getting in.

@musiceas66 I don't know exactly but in the news all the tech companies are still complaining they can't get enough I think...

@billgates oh geez. CMU

@sunfishcc btw ur profile, r u a car lover or cat lover?

So you goto CMU?

@billgates no I'm not in States. I don't have a chance. I got MSc btw

@sunfishcc yes neither did i, got rejected.... o well. Masters? I got a BS and after that, school just felt like a waste of money....

Degree == expensive piece of paper that qualifies you for a job.

@billgates I got first class honour, but it's hard to find a computer vision job here, so I'm doing front-end now 🤦‍♂️.
Might consider a PhD later on. Master is a man in the middle degree which doesn't proof anything

@sunfishcc but I mean the whole higher education argument. You pay them a lot but don't really get anything out of.

Honestly for all my the classes, I could pass just by buying and reading the textbooks...

And well that's pretty much how I learned all the Algo stuff after graduating. I literally just bought a textbook... And well didn't help much...

@billgates I think it's alright, but you must go to the top rated university.

@sunfishcc I went to one of the top business schools in the US though... supposed to be a golden ticket but couldn't get a job.

So fell back to "Plan B", become a Dev... At a bank... But all that business knowledge I paid for turns out to be pretty much useless...

Now you need a CFA, CPA, FRM qualifications.... pfft.... Didn't bother... Though some other guy did...

@billgates so you got double major?

@sunfishcc sorta. I was Finance and Accounting. Hated accounting so switched to Information Systems. But even that is mostly useless junk.

Just that I've been coding since I was a kid I guess better fit. But the degree didn't get me into a hedge fund or fintech. For that apparently you need Economics, Stats. IS just shows you what could be doing but doesn't make me qualified.... No one ever mentioned that.

So after I graduated, got a mail from a bank was recruiting so I just went with it...

But yea all the stuff I paid for was useless. I've had what I needed skillwise before I even enrolled. So other then partying my feeling has been college is a money hole....

@billgates interesting. I used to repair cars. Guess programming is the only job has descent salary from beginning, and allows wear whatever you want in the office

At a university where I studied they have the philosophy to accept everyone, disregarding their grades and other bullshit. Just letting them try. There where 1500 people when I started. 500 after the first year. Apparently in the same year around 100 graduated. You only stand a chance if you really want to study cs.

On the other hand places at universities of applied sciences are limited but more practice oriented. So if you are not the pure "science" type, it may be a bit harder. In my local area there are more open places then applications though.

I flunked. Hard. Maths is my weak point.

But you know what? A compsci degree (or lack thereof) has not done me any harm.

I had a bit of resistance at the start of my career (6-10 years ago) but things were different then.

The utter saturation across academia has led employers to reassess priorities in favour of experience.

Unless you’re going for some super crazy role in machine learning etc etc then just being a solid developer is totally enough.

1. Get learning
2. Get a GitHub - employers love poking around your code
3. Get a StackOverflow and earn a decent amount of rep (2k+) - I’ve had so many opportunities present themselves because of this
4. Keep on truckin’

Go for the degree if you want, but very little of it will be relevant to you, and none of it will be stuff you can’t learn online from more personable people for a lot less.

Focus on personal projects / getting some freelance work.

You’ll be just fine 👍