Couple rants ago I talked about how it would be easier to just block people from the EU, apparently somebody made that idea into a hosted script! LOL

https://euroshield.xyz/

Opens F12 -> Deletes Overlay

@Bitwise I have read the interesting idea: why not write into your TOS that EU citizens are not allowed to use the service, nobody reads them anyway and if somebody complains, they can legally remove him lol

ofc. more a joke than a serious suggestion, but still a nice play on the abused "I have read" checkbox

There are already a lot of companies that provide tools to block users from UE.

That law is a fucking joke, it's so fucking stupid, because everybody will just accept the new policy without even looking at it, otherwise they won't be able to use the services they love.

A group of 750 people who underestand nothing about new technologies, elected 4 years ago, created a stupid law in a few days just because of the Facebook Cambridge Analytica scandal… for what?
Who likes Facebook is still using it, it didn't change anything, just created a lot of problems for smaller companies that doesn't want to spend money to comply with the new law.
And caused a wave of SPAM emails everyone receives every 5 minutes.

This is a fucking bullshit just like the Cookie Law they created a few years ago.
Made for no fucking reason, because nobody cares.
Everyone clicks on "accept" without really looking at it.

@JS96 well said, though the question remains, assuming Facebook complied and stopped storing data, can anyone confirm it? I doubt, law is useless in these cases IMO

@JS96
they actually started working on gdpr a couple of years ago.
cambridge analyctica may just be an artificial reason so that peolpe are scared and "care" about privacy reason

@JS96 well put, can't add much more to it, I see this as a failed move, which caused only more trouble, confusion, wrong niche cash schemes and no actual progress, it had to be more well defined to target the actual problem, rather than just carpet bomb everybody

@Bitwise I don't trust vpn for full time use, just feels sketchier and more directly filtered for automatic consumption if wanted, it's always another ones server, be it vps, dedicated root coloc or whatever, you can never trust that one endpoint, even with all verification and signing you do, it's still someone elses server, my take on it anyway

@Bitwise ya well what do you expect from humans other than abusing

@Bitwise
About EU normatives... I work in industrial refrigeration, and a recent law force people to use natural gases (like CO2, or NH3), those gases have bad efficiency, or dangerous, tought natural. (more energy consuming)

so we have to change all the fridges because normal ones does not support this kind of gas.

the funny part? They say they will change the allowed gases in some years from now :/

@mngr ok, but why they even started to work on it?
What's the point?
Almost every service on the internet require your data to work, or just to be a bit useful.
Once you provided them, you can't be sure where they will be stored, who will used them, etc., even with a regulation like that, because imagine a simple hacker attack where all the data are stolen.

Ok, they give you the ability to require all the data a company have about you, but does it really change something?
You know what data they have about you (something you could already see on Facebook years ago), and then?

@JS96 I agree with you!!
what I wanted to say is that gdpr is not a consequence of cambridge analictyca!

It may even be the latter to be a consequence of the former

I think it is good law for those who care about privacy. For others it will indeed change nothing. No need to call it stupid just because you are among those who don't care.

@arraysstartat1 it doesn't save your privacy, it just forces companies to ask you:

"Do you want to give me your data?
Yes -> Enter the website
No -> You can't use our services"

So if you really care about your privacy, just stop using internet.
It doesn't make your data more secure, they still need to be stored as in the past.

Well that's not a good idea when your site domain name is euroshield.

I'm not from the EU, I've seen some information saying how the law is actually helpful, does anyone have any resources on the downsides?

Before: The companies own our data and the government doesn't do anything against ! -> Goverment does sth. -> Now: I don't to implement that in my own service, I mean it's only some names and e-mail. It's too hard let's block the EU instead.

@JS96 The GDPR also allow you to change the data, see it, delete it and port it to another services. "Consent must be clear and distinguishable from other matters and provided in an intelligible and easily accessible form, using clear and plain language. It must be as easy to withdraw consent as it is to give it.​"

@undefinedUser I believe that was on purpose as it shields from the EU

@arraysstartat1 you sound very little informed, so I am not sure if I should bite, what seems like a bait, not to mention that, that wasn't even the point of any of the discussion topics.

@fuck2code analytics won't work though if it's full opt-in, who would ever want that? (user perspective)

@Bitwise not really.

If i let you in my store and say its free, but i make pictures of you naked in the changing room so i can make money... But yoh sont tell me... Is not ok... Even if everyone is doing it.
You let me know what you will do with my data and my right to delete my data WHENEVER i want... Those naked photos? Gone you cant use them ... You sad you lost big revenue but i am happy.

Lots of websites i never visites had my e mail on a list saying that if i want to receive e mails according to the new gdpr.

Its my main account used only for the official stuff. It was clearly sold.. By whom? Why?

So before i only had the option to send it to spam... Now? I can ask them to fuck off and delete me.
See? Big fucking difference. Especially for gulible parents and so on. Easier for me to clean up... Because one website sold everything.

@JoshBent why a joke. It would be fair. You can skim through them very quickly if you want.

@JS96 what? As I remember the law is from 2016

@curlyDev agree 100%

I like the GDPR. a) No need for me to unsubscribe b) Easier to skim the tos and pp

I like the GDPR. a) No need for me to unsubscribe b) Easier to skim the tos and pp

I read somewhere that the GDPR will. E aolied on top of every country's current data protection law.

So no one is safe.

@bcye you'd have to quote for me to know what of my messages youre addressing

@mundo03 It is now active in every EU-country and every firm operating in the EU has to comply.

The Dutch national news thiny's site asked me consent for personalized user tracking. Said no. Noticed some trackers/cookies not loading anymore....

I think it's a difficult law but a good one. Many of our customers have a (both paid and free) secure connection now, tracking without much reason isn't allowed anymore and companies have to delete my data if I want to.

Awesome! Shouldn't that be the default anyways?!

@linuxxx Quadruple ++

It’s very refreshing to see people waking up and seeing the extreme dangers of GDPR in terms of a free internet and ability to innovate. The law is crippling to many business (mainly small ones), extremely costly to all businesses who want to “comply,” and really does little to protect the large majority of consumers.

It’s poster child #1 example of a “nanny state” law that has gone so far out of its way to “protect” people that it is hurting them instead.

No matter your views on politics or GDPR, the philosophy I always live by is the last thing I want is any government body regulating the internet. Like others have said, politicians are the absolute last people on the planet who should be deciding things that impact the internet and technology. 99% of them are clueless about tech.

@Bitwise thanks, and I absolutely agree with what you said.

But I would also argue GDPR is so ill-conceived it might not even hold up in court when the time comes. And when they go after big companies, and the big companies fight back and put the burden of proof and upholding the law on the EU government, I kind of even doubt they are going to come out ahead. My hope is they get drowned in lawsuits/years of litigation of people and companies challenging the law that it becomes uneconomical to try to fine/collect/prosecute.

I hope the EU tax payers are ready to fund years of litigation around this before getting any return, because I think that will happen, at least in the short-term.

@JoshBent „Write in the tos eh Users aren’t allowed to use the service

@bcye ahh 😉

@Bitwise i agree with everything you @JoshBent and @dfox said.

GDPR may have a good end-goal or intentions set, but like any policy the devil really lies in the details.
From a business point of view, there are many crippling devils that wont necessarily prevent your data from leaking.

I believe your data is ultimately your responsability.
Being more conscious about which sites you visit, how, and what data you are willing to share is many times more potent than any policy.

@bioDan exactly - and this really only accomplishes the exact opposite. It completely absolves people of personal responsibility in favor of the government “protecting” you and all the while you’re still encouraged to be uneducated and not know what’s going on.

Why not just educate people to use ad blockers, VPNs, block origins they don’t want tracking them, etc.? You’re exactly right. It all falls to self-responsibility but GDPR helps with none of that and actually makes it worse.

I wish the GDPR covered America, too.

the amount of misinformed people and those who dont see the use of it hurts my soul

@Bitwise Because you have to comply to data rights ? For example in Germany only 10% of the GDPR is new and the rest already had to be applied. Still our inner minister said that at the begin they will be forgiving in regards of punishment.

@Bitwise No just no I want to own my data.
I do use telemetry, social media, Bing and so on, so yes I share my data, but I also want to at any point see what I shared and delete it.

@Bitwise Out of business? Since it cannot be because of fines (as enforcement would have started yesterday, there is no case yet), this can only mean they didn't prepare in time, and their practice were bad enough that risk management decided they would actually risk getting fines.

If they close down for real, well I say that's a good thing (that's my opinion, I bet you don't agree, and that's fine too!), getting a free/cheap service is not worth getting your privacy trampled.

What this law does is force accountability and good practice.

Also, it's worth noting that a few EU countries already had very similar (someone talked about Germany, and it's the same in France).

The main thing I find disappointing as a huge GDPR proponent is that the fines don't scale down well for small business, and there isn't much exceptions for small business (which is the actual problem which slow innovation).

@Fradow As you mentioned Germany and France having an alike law; Norway has had an almost identical law since 1972, except it applies to any data, not just electronic

@Proximyst GDPR applies to all data too, as @fuck2code said, be it electronic, on paper, on cold storage or carved into stone (perhaps not stone).

It also applies not only to consumers, but to employees, and other companies employees too. Basically, is the data about a human? Then GDPR applies.

The path to compliance will be long and slow, but when we'll mostly get there, we will look back in horror at what we did in the past.

There is a reason there are labels on food you buy, even if very few people read that. GDPR is the same concept applied to your personal data.

@fuck2code that would be new to me, care to explain? As far as I know, GDPR applies to all EU residents (not citizens).

I don't see the relevance of your link with GDPR :/

@fuck2code @Fradow I already know that, just wanted to add another country to Fradow's list :p

@Frederick I wouldn't call you hero, but I would agree if you did report anyone not complying with the GDPR, even non-profits.

I have no problem that some people try to argue GDPR is good - I think there are parts of it that are good too.

But you can’t argue both that GDPR is great and that it’s important to keep the internet free and open. I see it as one or the other. GDPR itself isn’t the end of the free/open internet, but it sets a precedent that most people are perfectly fine with the government regulating the internet. Because that’s exactly what GDPR is - it’s the government regulating the internet and telling private companies and individuals how they may use it and imposing harsh penalties if the governing body finds they used the internet incorrectly.

This frightens me, to be honest. Not because of what it is, but because what it can easily become if we let our guard down. I can think of many places the EU can go from here in terms of regulating the internet. The EU has extremely strong censorship laws relative to the United States. What if next they say “we need to protect our citizens, so any app that breaks the following censorship laws needs to clean itself up.” While that might be a bit extreme, it doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility in the future. After all, it would just be another piece of regulation to “protect” the consumer and now its established that that’s OK. Obviously, a piece of regulation like that would force an app like us to no longer be able to serve the EU, just like GDPR made many companies unable to serve the EU.

That’s why any time any government body (no matter what county they are from) suggests they need to regulate the internet beyond blatantly illegal content (ex. Child porn, explicit calls for violence, etc.) I’m skeptical because 99% of legislators know nothing about the thing they want to regulate.

You may love or hate GDPR, but when a fucking American newspaper blocks all EU users, I have to ask... Wtf are you doing to not be able to be compliant with GDPR as a newspaper?
I don't think GDPR is a good solution at all, but if you want it or not, it has brought some big companies in a shady light.

Yes, I'm looking at you LA Times (and others)

@aaxa that’s the question people keep asking but it’s simply not a fair/accurate question.

The real question should be: is it economically worth it for a U.S. business that caters to 99% American audience to spend money and resources to comply with a law handed down by a foreign government?

It’s simply a question of business and economics. Not every business needs the EU and there’s a cost to complying. Why spend money to follow a set of laws that don’t govern your customers?

@dfox That's true.
Are you then implying, that you don't think any of these cases are shady at all?

Edit: I still think it's a fair question in many cases. Maybe not in small local business cases, but when we're talking medium to large sized companies, I take it as a strong indicator that they:
A. Don't care about the data they store and don't care about their customers right to know
B. Are incompetent and/or ignorant and/or lazy
C. Are doing it to hide some shady shit

@aaxa I’m saying that no one has any evidence to suggest they are doing anything shady. There’s literally nothing to suggest it’s anything more than a business decision and not wanted to deal with legal headaches for an audience they don’t care about. Makes perfect sense to me.

@dfox I simply don't agree.
Want to know how much we had to change to be GDPR compliant where I work? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Edit: other than sending an email and updating the text in our policies

@aaxa sure, but not every company is the same. Most companies I know had to do extensive things, spend tons of money, and they do nothing shady.

Again, why make an ounce of effort/open the door to possible legal consequences if you don’t have to? That’s what I’m still not seeing. You mentioned a pretty regional US-based newspaper. They clearly don’t care about the EU and I’m not sure why they ever would...

I just read that the total estimated cost for small business in Italy to comply with the new laws is about €3.1 billions… thanks EU...

@JS96 amazing. And that’s just small businesses in Italy. I don’t even want to know what the total worldwide cost might be.

@dfox Maybe LA Times wasn't the best example, but I've seen plenty examples over the past week. Also from companies not remotely as local as LA Times

@aaxa I’m sure there’s some companies that chose not to comply and instead exit the market because they are doing sketchy things, but from what I’ve seen the large majority of companies have instead invested the resources into complying to some extent.

I think this is the nature and will always be the nature of an government regulation put on the internet and it’s why I’m generally against it. Any time laws are made on how the internet can be used by individuals and companies, there will be choices that get made to either fall under those laws or exit the markets imposing the laws. There are perfectly legit business cases for GDPR for market exit like with American newspapers, so each case would need to be evaluated on its own. But like I said in my original comment, you called out an American newspaper for leaving the EU and like you’ve kind of said now, it’s really not a valid case and is easily explained by their target market.

Like I’ve said before, I see no reason why the EU will stop with these initial laws when there’s so much more of the internet they can govern and restrict. Article 13 seems to be the next big thing, we’ll see what happens there.

@dfox Maybe that's the root of our different opinions.

I generally think it's good to make laws protecting the consumer on the internet.
Like with the whole internet neutrality thing.

Again, I'm not for GDPR as it is, since it kinda seems like a major misstep. It simply targets too many small businesses.
I'm just glad VPN exists so I can still read my newspaper 😉

Note: thank you for a good discussion. Tbh, I rarely respond to people trying to start a discussion since it usually ends out with the argument: "I'm right because I said so"

VPN, that's how we deal with that in EU.