I'm gonna have a serious talk with my bosses the day after tomorrow. We have so much to do, we are basically at 150% workload. Problem is: they don't pay us for overtime.

This has been going on for 18 years in the company. It will not be easy. But they either start paying our overtime or I am out (and probably taking the whole dev team with me.)

Wish me luck!

If the team really goes with you and they are aware of the fact they hopefully feel some pressure.

bossmans love hard cash, thats why you should have some numbers in your sleeve. Like how much more he would earn when he hired 2 more devs to tackle the workload.

My reaction would have been "I don't work for free" about 18 years ago.

18 years has been too long

From my observations, the only real and efficient way of getting a proper pay raise is switching company.

Clarification: The company is 18 years old. I am only in my 4th year there.

But still, there are apparently some employees who have been doing 20-40 extra hours every month for years now.

Good luck! and keep us posted.

Will deliver in 24-36 hours!

@cabrasm he is to busy doing unpaid overtime 🤷🏻‍♂️

@heyheni OMG hahahahahaha

I had the talk. As expected, they were not very open for paying us overtime, but they want to find a solution and do something about it. My collegues and I will listen to their proposal and then take appropriate measures... We will wait for their proposal no more than two weeks! Stay tuned!

@electronix eh in germany isn't it illegal to not pay for overtime? And can't you found a Betriebsrat/Works council to shit on your boss? Have a talk with the Workers Union. Maybe you get the pleasure of wearing fancy Ver.di workers union cloathing and waiving its flag. 😄
Strike! Strike! Strike!

@heyheni Yes, it is illegal. Yes, we could create a Betriebsrat. No, there is no Union for my job, sadly.

We are very pissed about our bosses attitude. He is extremely manipulative regarding salary and overtime negotiations.

Once you see through his bullshit arguments (which I now do), it gets apparent how disrespectful and dirty his tactics actually are.

For example: He misses no occasion to tell us "how hard things are" to create the illusion that there is no money. When you complain about overtime, he stresses how unfair to everyone else it would be if he made an exception just for one person. In reality, the only true injustice is that he does not pay anyone for overtime.

Worst: He insists that employees who show initiative and give everything for the company (unpaid overtime) are rewarded with loyalty and a big base salary. But: I know of one person, working for us for years, doing overtime every week, always staying late. He had not had a pay raise in 9 years!

hoho... imagine if you all went to court and won and the company would have to pay all the overtime you've guys made.

@electronix Well, when things get too shitty and you decide to leave. You (I mean, all of you guys) can start working your contracted hours and no more. Like arriving at 8.00 and leaving at 17.00. No more, no less.

The projects won't ever be done on time but wth man!

@cabrasm hoho! spoken like a true capitalist!

https://goo.gl/TftCFb
Divide and rule - Wikipedia

@cabrasm And obviously make them work overtime.

The offer came quicker than expected:

Overtime will be limited to 10 hours a month, even if that means some projects cannot be finished in time.

Project managers will be forced to calculate realistic deadlines. No additional projects will be forced into the full project capacity.

Overtime will not be paid, but since it is capped, we will be able to take time off more easily to reduce collected overtime.

We are very happy with that compromise. Thank you for your support!

@electronix Well that's a good deal. I'm happy you guys got your requests. Good for you man!

If they start using the overtime as a "but you agreed to work this much" to finish menial tasks then be sure to smack down on it hard if they want more overtime once there's a fire to put out.