11
piehole
5y

As a person from low-paying country, how do I reconcile with the fact that for the same work, and the same 8 hours, I get 1/3 of what a person in Germany does? In my previous team (same company), one of my teammates was from Germany. The same team, the same work, but he happened to earn a lot more.

This bothers me a lot sometimes. I have seen people requesting to be transferred to another country, and being denied, presumably because of the salary difference. Then, the person leaves, and someone in Australia gets hired. So, rather than moving a veteran person of whom you know fits your company culture to a higher-paying country, you let him go and hire a newbie in an equally-expensive country? What the fuckity fuck?

And to my friends from high-paying countries, especially managers: you don't have to feel bad, but have some common decency. If you come to my country, do not say "oh gosh, everything here is so cheap," or "the dinner for the whole team costs less than buying my family of four a dinner back home." That's offensive as fuck. If that's the case, fucking give me a raise you cheap fuck!

Comments
  • 12
    I think, something that might be missing is the fact that the salary is higher there, because of the much more expensive cost of living in those countries.
  • 5
    Move to a glorious high paying country and watch as your pay goes down the drain every month
  • 5
    Are all countries Communists?
    Why do you even care about what is the cost of living of a person if you are doing the equal amount of work for equal intervals.
  • 2
    You reconcile by comparing house prices or rents in your country with Germany. For an Indian dev, something like $10000 before tax seems to be normal. Now e.g. in Munich, you are very lucky if you get a 40 sqm appartment at 800 EUR ($900), but that is cold, without heating, water, electricity and additional charges. In other words, with the salary of an Indian dev, you would be homeless.
  • 1
    @fahad3267 Well, think of it this way. It's a lot better to think of it in terms of what your value is. For all intents and purposes, let's say your work is worth 1000 cheeseburgers. In america, cheeseburgers happen to be cheap because of a high availability of beef. In switzerland, however, meat is a lot more expensive due to less beef availability. That means, someone in switzerland technically has to be paid more to get the same amount of cheeseburgers.
  • 2
    @hackedranger
    Have it this way.
    You had a burger in America. Your government takes care of your health and transport and many other services which are state affair.
    Another person had the burger in, lets say, India but he has to pay for the health services, which are too expensive and you'll forget your burger theory if God forbid you are sick. Then there are issues with transit system, residential systems and much more. The man is literally surviving through a black hole. Do you really think that paying for burgers is enough.
  • 3
    @fahad3267 Well, your example doesn't really work, because my healthcare here in America isn't covered by the government. That doesn't have much to do with the argument I was presenting anyway.

    Also, the burger is an abstraction. The concept of the 1000 burgers is meant to cover every possible expense in your life including healthcare.
  • 3
    Folks, I don't give a fuck about cost of living in the US vs cost of living in my own country. The bottom line is, the company is not willing to pay me the same amount as someone in Germany, Canada, or Australia. What's more, the company would rather lose a person than to pay him the standard in a more expensive country. That's shitty, don't you think?
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop please tell me thats not a yearly 10k
  • 0
    @ganjaman https://devrant.com/rants/1796465/...

    For Germany, it's definitely yearly, and there's no way that Indian devs have $10k per month because that would be more expensive than both US and Germany.
  • 2
    @Fast-Nop Sure. So pay the Indian and the German folk the same amount, if both actually have the same skills. The Indian person can then choose to live in a 40sqm apt in Munich, or the German person can choose to live like a king in India.

    Look, if one person knows a lot less, due to poor education, I get it. Otherwise, how is it moral to pay me less for the same quality of work?
  • 1
    @piehole
    Weird as it is.
    They'll make you leave and then pay what you wanted, to a new comer.
  • 0
    @piehole
    like a king 😅
    That's how they should live
  • 2
    @piehole Well, then you run into the issue of immigration. Most countries aren't willing to let their entire population to migrate to a better region. Likewise, better countries don't want a massive influx of immigrants because it would reduce their quality of life.

    The reason things are based on cost of living is because the value of a dollar is determined by the value of items they can buy. Not the other way around.

    Additionally, in the situation you are calling for, it's more likely that a company would just lower the salary of the higher paying countries, rather than raise yours, if the goal was to have uniform pay in a given job.
  • 0
    @hackedranger We live in the EU. I can pack up my shit and go to the UK over night, just like I can go to Romania. Immigration is a non-issue for us; I show my passport and can go look for a job.

    I can already see the comments of "leave then, fucker". I don't want to quit and just leave even if I can, but if I could retain my job and just start working from my company's offices in France or Germany, I would definitely consider it.
  • 1
    @piehole That does change the situation for you, but that is more a matter of EU internal dynamics then. Globally, the issue would be harder to deal with.

    What I'm saying is we were arguing in differdnt scopes. I have no business in the scope you were discussing.
  • 1
    @piehole market is demand and supply. If you offer $30k for a dev position in Munich, you simply won't get any job applicants at all. Moral is the wrong category here.

    If devs in India feel underpaid, they should start negotiating more money. Then again, from my first hand experience, they should also start to deliver a lot better work. Right now, outsourcing there is more expensive than doing the work here in Germany because of all the necessary handholding and the repair work afterwards.
  • 0
    Going through the same thing. Sometimes I'm in the USA working, getting paid like a Puerto Rican. We get paid half of what they would pay an American (everything else being the same).

    I don't buy the whole it's "equivalent" BS. Because, it really isn't.

    It's how we're sold to the customer, I can still work here and get paid more if the focus on the "US citizen programmer" part. But boss already told us that matching pay is not an option, as cheap labor is the main selling point.
  • 0
    @piehole find another company. If its clear to you (I agree with you) lead by example.. dont ramble
  • 1
    Stop being offended at everything.
    Be happy that you have a job that pays very well.
    In Germany: taxes take more than 1/3 if what you earn, rent takes 1/3 if what's left, and almost everything else is just more expensive.
    And wherever you are, you can't interact with the team properly. No "come over your desk and talk". That's worth a lot.
    Company doesn't get 100% of you, but they pay less. You get paid a lot for your work, which is also awesome. So stop complaining and get your act straight for fucks sake! You're lucky to have that contact, and if you don't like it - fuck off. You're not a slave, you're free to work elsewhere.

    If you really want to go to Germany, find some company willing to offer you the right contact, get a Visa, and so on.

    Stop blaming it on the others. The only thing that's not your fault in all of this is that you were born in a poorer country. Every other problem however is completely on you. Take ownership, STFU, and act!
  • 0
    @Fast-Nop you know why indian product delivery sucks because our overhead idiots spineless creatures doing everything worse what can they possibly do just god gifted them a chance in early ages due to which they stick their like a parasite and started consuming the life in tech which can otherwise will be promising and literally change to something good. They just waste money to those things which is not necessary and totally they don't deserve it
  • 0
  • 0
    @antoniomerlin It's not crappy management. What you get in India is mostly juniors without experience because there is no proper tech career. You don't get even semi-nice system architecture. People hack software together along the requirements because they don't understand the full system and don't bother. You don't get useful feedback if requirements don't quite match up. And don't get me even started on how testing is architected and done, it's a total mess because testing is even less of a career.

    That's not just one case of bad luck with one crappy company, that's SEVERAL tries. Management would already consider it as HUGE success if the total project cost would end up at 70%. The other rant I linked shows Indian devs earning 16% of German ones. That means even management calculates with a net efficiency of 4:1, which has yet to be reached.

    On the upside, I do like Indians and India personally, and I'm quite happy with occasional trips to India that I'm even getting paid for.
  • 0
    You know who hires those junior debs the whole and so called team lead having experience of 10 years
  • 0
    And India i think I can say that I have literally witness it as my father was in army and I've got transferred in every two years with having posted in metro cities to remote areas where local people are very few i mean very
  • 0
    @antoniomerlin yeah, the leads are usually quite reasonable people, but they don't develop because if they were still developing, they would be paid so much less.

    That's a problem that India really has to fix. There must be valid tech careers so that experienced good greybeards still can be in dev.
  • 1
    It isn't just the amount of work you put in comparison but also the work ethics, there are reasons people hold high regards to German engineering qualities
  • 0
    It's all relative really.
  • 0
    As most of you just said, it all comes down to the cost of living... It doesn't matter if you are doing the same job as the person from Germany... If for any reason the tables turn, and your boss decides that since both of you are doing the same job, then his/her decides to pay your coworker from Germany the same as you... It most definitely mean that the one in Germany is going bankrupt.
    Now, if the matter was about two people doing the same, in the same country, then yes, it would be unfair to be paid different amounts
  • 1
    @marcorodnav and it boils down to cities, in the US ppl get higher salaries in NY / Boston / LA, but the cost of living there is higher than in say Houston
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