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Ranter

r-fu

285

Comments

6

Fast-Nop

39106

5y

Of course JS is a piece of shit. No wonder because it was originally hacked together in 10 days. However, it's the only language that is reliably available client-side in browsers.
1

r-fu

285

5y

@Fast-Nop my feelings are 50/50. Haha
1

Demolishun

34976

5y

Other developers say shit about JesusScript all the time. Its because they know JesusScript programmers walk on water. They are so jelly.
0

r-fu

285

5y

@Demolishun hahaha. Jesuscript! Lols.
0

sboesch

546

5y

Well, JS was really a pain in the early and mid years and it took like 20 years to mature. I'm feeling like an old man saying this (being 28), but younger web developers don't even know anymore what browser incompatibilities are, what browser hacks are, or the importance of Flash or Java as a superior (and working) alternative to JS.

And while I love JS, I understand everyone who gave it a try years ago and still suffers from PTSD.
0

r-fu

285

5y

@sboesch we’re in the same age. I used work on flash and php before. I got no complains because i left that behind me. Haha. Im just happy with what is JS now even though another framework will comeout in 3..2.. hahahaha
2

poly

106

5y

To be fair, JS is a horribly designed language. Unfortunately, it's also the only one that runs on the browser, and for now, we're stuck with it.

ES6 made some big improvements, but it will continue to be a bletcherous abomination until someone decides to revisit some of the older issues that JS has, but that haven't been dealt with because it would break backwards compatibility.

A good collection of articles is https://medium.com/javascript-non-g..., or some googling around for "javascript sucks" will point you in the direction of some well written rants on the subject.

I don't know what kind of experience you have outside of JS, but if you want to see what a beautifully designed language looks like, look into LISP or Smalltalk, just for the sake of it.

For languages that are actually used outside academic pursuits, I'm very partial to Ruby. It's not quite as elegant as LISP or Smalltalk, but then again, no other languages get to that level either.
5

Fast-Nop

39106

5y

@poly LISP has failed for these main reasons IMO:

1) Idiomatic LISP code is an unreadable mess of untyped lists, see also https://codeproject.com/Articles/... .

2) LISP isn't just a language, it's also the stuff you make languages from. Which means that every project is practically in its own domain specific language. The result is that it attracts primarily very bright lonewolf programmers.

The industry has no interest in this type of programmer because while he MAY be a short term asset, he will CERTAINLY be a long term liability. Namely, after he's gone.

See also http://marktarver.com/bipolar.html for this and the next point.

3) Meanwhile, a real world language like C has an "obfuscated code contest", and even worse, C++ doesn't because it would be too trivial. But in both languages, you need cooperation to get anything considerable done at all. That's what keeps real world coding in check.
2

AleCx04

27705

5y

@Fast-Nop I love all 3 languages you mentioned(Lisp(as in Common Lisp and Clojure), Js and C++) in the negative but you are right my good sir.

What had me rolling was when you said that c++ obfuscated would be too trivial omg, I can::only(**imagine)[=]{ some::namespace.how(&that).wouldBe()};

C is just beautiful, even large code bases look beautiful, but I can only estimate that to be because the people working with it have the tenacity to work with it and you really need to master it to become efficient. JS not so much, even on large and famous projects the codebase is messy af. I know its warts enough because I have really learned how to work with it, but still.

Lisp is more or an academic endeavor, I do have a medium sized app running in Clojure, but wrote a backup(in Python which I also dislike but that is another story) since no one else but me would understand it from the original codebase.
0

AleCx04

27705

5y

@poly ou dear a Richard K Eng post, I can't take a fucker that quotes himself as a backup seriously, and neither should you.
0

r-fu

285

5y

@poly i used to use c++, vb8, java, assembly, and php on my undergrad but not professionally. Then work with flash action script, but never thought of how programming design really as i was thinking thats there own feature. Is that bad?
2

poly

106

5y

@r2d2 No, I can’t see that’s bad in any way.

I had a couple of courses where we explored the design and some old or uncommon languages such as Pascal, LISP, Smalltalk, CLOS and even APL and Prolog, and those courses influenced my thinking and taste on matters of language design.

I think C is a solid, well-built language, but I’d hardly call it beautiful, like @AleCx04 does.
0

r-fu

285

5y

@poly thanks for that. I just dont get people hatin on a language. Im just cool with it. Haha
1

jorgeogj

41

5y

@Fast-Nop ok boomer
2

Fast-Nop

39106

5y

@jorgeogj Shut up, Wesley.

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