I don't like noob techies who are into IT for the money.

My friend is jealous of me and he wants to get to my level. I told him that he should take Oracle certifications if he wants a good chance to a raise or a promotion (at least, it's a well-respected series of certs and everyone I know who took them got serious salary increases and respect from their managers).
For example, I studied for 12 weeks, for 12 hours per day for the OCA. He thinks he can just quickly cram a cert in three days and get big money. Nope.

This guy failed Network+ countless times. I remember he wanted to quickly get his CCNA when he barely understands how folders work.

The level of foolishness is amazing..
Yeah, anyway..

And i studied for 4 years at an university, now sitting with a guy who has no high education and got his skills from doing some coding in his parents basement ... Is that fair?

We have to just get over it and let everyone do their thing...

Some ppl have passion and things come easy for them, some ppl pay with hard work and time to compensate for the fact that they dont code since age 13, and have other interests in life that don't make a good career choice

Cram a cert in 3 days...
Believe me it happens. I have interviewed so many people with dozens of certifications. And can't answer basic questions when asked. Many folks think that's a way to impress the employers and they can get away without being asked anything about the topic. Why? Because look at my certification bitch.

To be fair, you know your shit, because you devoted time to learn it. If he wants to get in the industry by cramming a cert, let him and sit back and enjoy. If he has the mettle, he'll survive. Otherwise he'll become irrelevant in a few years

@terriblecoder of course some shitty certs can be crammed in in a few days or in my Case a few hours. I have two certs that are worth shit and there's hardly anything you have to know when doing Them. Why did I do them? Don't ask me. It was a waste of time and money...
But @CaptainRant was talking about the oracle certs and those are quite heavy!

Certs are useful for HR who don't have any IT background.

They are also useful for entry level (shows you aren't totally an idiot).

I don't know how I feel about them for anything else tho.

@don-rager sure oracle certs are considered reputable. The ones I was talking about are Java certifications, AWS certifications, azure certifications, Google cloud certifications and so on. There are literally question banks which people mug up and get those certs. Not sure if you would consider these certificates reputable, but there's a lot of value that is usually associated with them in the market.

Just to add, having certificates doesn't really prove anything today. I consider it just a way to get past the HR drones.

And as I said, you are good because you invested the time to learn the things you know. To quote fight club... You are not your certificates

@terriblecoder Amen, brother. F-ing amen.

As someone on a career change (and a radical change at that) I can only say this:

- Some certifications, in order to be reputable, are quite intense, but dipshits have found a way around them (question banks etc)

- Most serious companies have at least 2 interviews, one with HR and one with the technical department (your would-be future boss). If the tech interview asks for certifications, RUN. There is something seriously wrong with it.

I applied and got hired by a company, and my CV and certs are shit. Like, totally shit. However, I have been studying on my own and APPLYING what I learned (and learned from my mistakes) for quite some time. We were all noob techs once (I consider myself to still be one). What should count is attitude and effort invested. Thankfully, in my case, it counted a lot. People who rest on past laurels are quickly left behind in a field that evolves every second.

I only know one, maybe two things..

@vortex it is fair if he does the same work as you..

experience > certificate

@PublicByte It is true that most skilled people wouldn't pass the HR barrier without something that says "computers". I took a MS, "Specialisation in Information Systems", that was actually shit. Like, REALLY shit. Yet, it sounded gaudy enough to get me past the first barrier.

Taking such a course (which any technical person can complete with relative ease) can be a nice countermeasure for the HR Hell. It didn't help me in the least when the IT department guy started going all Inquisition on me, though - only my own studies and hours hunched over a PC, trying to make Arch work.

The good news is, companies are learning to better assess the quality of their hires - it can be EXPENSIVE to replace a bad hire, and that is what interests them the most. Oh well, we can always hope for the best :)

@PublicByte you won't. I think the degree you get as a trainee says 0 about how well you will perform in your job. I learn alot at my company but school is just a waste of time and effort

@PublicByte yes you did, just saying ;)

@wannabe My consultant friend had to study the expert level cert on Oracle DB so his Resource Manager could sell him to new clients.. took him a full year of studying. His salary increase is quite adequate though!

@bladedemon Well, his attitude is horrible and lazy as hell. I don't think he will get very far, if at all.