A person who left university as a good developer, probably entered university as a good developer.

well let's hope I'm an Exception to that rule...

So true :D Many of the students in my courses have no idea of what they are doing. They just did something "with computers" cause of the well paid jobs which they'll never get.

@zantekk why would they never get such a thing... i made a similar post about this issue but your comment makes it more clear than i did.

I quit college after 3 years as a better developer only through my own work and sweat. By the time I finished 2nd year I got an awesome internship (most of my colleagues haven't). Now I'm very well where I am and never regretted leaving.

@NeilCorn Of course, just remeber to catch it

Well that's just not true. I'm in my third year. On attachment, and I'm learning lots. I'm definitely better than where i started from.

You may have your reasons to believe so, but I totally disagree.
Do you really believe a 18 old with the math preparation obtained in high school can be a "good programmer"?
If so, I'm sorry but I believe what you mean by "programmer" is very different from what I mean.
(Obviously here I'm considering the majority of people, we are all well aware of the presence of geniuses who are able to master advanced concepts at a very early age)

I value my education so much that I spend time on DevRant in class.

I learn more from my actual work, thanks. Just here for the paper roll.

@Klone Doesn't have to all be about advanced maths!

@spl0 it's not advanced at all.
Advanced math is what is thought in math/physics degree programs.
It's just what is barely enough to understand some useful concepts (as examples take graph theory, machine learning, cryptography, complexity theory). And I don't believe what you get at high school level is enough. Maybe it was just my high school that was particularly bad.

@Klone I take your point and mostly agree with you. But I think it all depends what you are coding.

All programs require some sort of logic; so the ability to be logical is the most important thing.

You can argue that logic in itself is mathematical, but you don't need to know all kinds of maths to write most programs.

Some programs obviously are mathematical, and sometimes it just helps to be aware of some mathematical concepts. But there has always been a myth that anyone who writes programs must be good at maths... and I think that is a myth.

Or more likely, had time to become one

@spl0 yep I understand your point.
There are many people on the web continuously attacking the value of university education. And I even understand their reasons for some aspects, but I really don't like such strong generalizations.
PS: Just read my comment again and maybe it sound a little aggressive, totally unwanted, sorry.

@Klone Not at all :-) Your points are all very well made!

@spl0 or, In some cases you go in knowing nothing about software development and programming and come out with a extremely high competency in certain skills in comparison to the general workforce (not all aspects of programming, but I learned A LOT about database design, application design patterns and entry level Java / c++.) I could have learned many of these things on my own, but I attribute some of the finer tools in my toolbox of knowledge to amazing professors who were not only geniuses but were still working in the industry in the summer as independent consultants earning more in the 1.5x their teaching salary. But for every truly amazing teacher a gad one or two decent ones and a hand full if useless ones.

@brettmoan Absolutely

While I can sympathize, all the awesome internships I went through were only possible by being a college student. College is not only about what happens in class.