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Also, yeah, I realize it sounds hypocritical, saying people should be shot for various reasons... but I still try to be polite to individuals.
Generalized groups of morons are fair game. 🤷♂ -
mr-user13524yYou are "Wrong." I deserved to be shot :)
On serious note you are right in that they are better way to correct someone.
What I hate more than "you are wrong" statement is the bias opinion which doesn't add anything to the conversation like "Why are you using javascript? javascript suck"
My teacher once said "You either provide a better alternative solution or shut up".He said it in more teacher-like manner but it is the main point of his message.
People like to criticize a person opinions or decisions but they don't give better alternative solution. -
@Jilano If in doubt, say something stupid. That has generally higher odds of matching your conversation partners.
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Okii254yWhen someone says something I disagree with, I often try to find out their perspective, perhaps there is something to be learnt. Perhaps the flaw is in my own idea instead.
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@mr-user I have that "provide an alternative" discussion several times a week at work.
Cool if a developer can recognize that a piece of code breaks some kind of design rule, made up by some kind of guru who wrote a 2500 page manual about domain driven design — but it's useless if you can't also demonstrate how it should be done — And convince others why those abstractions have benefits... -
mr-user13524y@bittersweet
You are having trouble proving your alternative. I don't know if it work for you but you need to think of how to present the solution. I am going to assume that your alternative solution is definitely "better" than current one.
1) Play office politic (which I am going to assume that you don't want to play)
2) Be manipulative
Let me explain solution 2 in more detail. First always give credit to other people. You could start with "The solution we are using develop by X have give us the advantages of A,B,C. To have more benefit for advantages A, we could try out this solution"
People don't like when their solution is criticize and being criticize make trigger their defensive mode. So always give them credit first and don't use negative word. At most use neutral word. Let result speak for themselves and don't brag when your solution success (it's important)
Remember your goal. Your goal is to present your alternative not make other people feel bad. -
mr-user13524yAnother method you can use in take "full responsibility"
You could say something like "Due to A,B,C we could replace the current solution with this new solution. I will take responsibility and fix up the problems which occur due to implementation this alternative." -
@mr-user Just in case, I was alluding to the classic spaghetti Western "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly". :-)
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@Okii ditto.
If I think they are wrong I start asking questions in a way that answering them would be like obviously admitting 'yes, I was wrong'. Learned that from some of Aristotle's [if I recall it correctly] discussions.
And in case the opponent was not wrong these questions will help me realize where there was a flaw in my logic/knowledge.
In some cases both parties are saying the same thing just in different words which might make one party misunderstand another one as being wrong. Asking the right questions helps to clear the mist very quickly. So imo that's a way better [un a sense of politeness, constructiveness <what's the right term?> and time saving] approach than going with a strong "MEEEEH! WRONG!" -
@mr-user Yeah but he has a really good line. Some other villain catches him in the bathtub and talks about how he's going to take revenge. Meanwhile, the "ugly" cocks his gun under the foam, shoots first, and comments:
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk!" -
hitko31544y@bittersweet Or maybe I just don't want to set up a password cracking software or spend an hour looking up articles to demonstrate why sha512 isn't a good algorithm for storing passwords. Just fucking listen when I tell you it's wrong and go find a better solution, instead of wasting my time because you don't know the difference between signature hashing and password hashing.
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@hitko
It's about conversational skills, both online and offline.
If I were to post a comment:
"I think you should be using sha512 instead of plaintext to store passwords"
It matters whether you'd respond with:
"Wrong. Everyone knows you should use bcrypt."
Or
"Hey Bittersweet, Sha512 isn't made for hashing passwords, it's a generic hashing function. Bcrypt is the current industry standard."
I'm not a person whose feelings are easily hurt by rude people, but it's a universal truth that people are more willing to listen to advice if it's communicated professionally.
But I understand the feeling. There are moments where I do feel like smashing some heads through tables when people propagate false information.
It's just that abrasive reactions are rarely an effective teaching method. -
hitko31544y@bittersweet Wrong. Studies in both animals and humans have shown test subjects remembered extremely pleasant and extremely unpleasant encounters much better than soft critique or praise. Sure, everyone tends to listen better to things they like, and they'd rather do something they get rewarded for, but when it comes to evolution remembering harsh encounters is what's the most crucial for survival.
Also 9/10 times "Wrong." is just a "nicer" way of saying "Hey dumbass, you clearly know jack shit about this thing you're doing, google it and the first result will explain just how shitty your approach is."
People who start their reply to other people's comments with "Wrong." should be shot, or at least receive several hard punches in the stomach, even if their refutation is 100% on point.
It's such an autistic knee-jerk reaction to hit the error buzzer whenever you see false information.
Correcting someone is fine, amazing even, but it's not some game show where you get points for jelling the correct answer as fast as possible.
I wish there was a cryptocurrency which was mined by spreading correct information politely.
rant