So you're sitting on your crappy Win 10 and whine about that piece of shit, huh? You had five fucking years to come up with a plan, but noooo. Instead, you put your thumb up your asshole and hoped MS would change ways. Only that they didn't, and that's because they bet on people like YOU, and now you have to suck your dirty thumb.

Today’s people are corporate pussies waiting for big brother to save them, so what do you expect ?

me want to know the whole story, what happened mate?

@JhonDoe Bill Gates happened and his Balmer like bitches.

@JhonDoe Alluding to the "mimimi my Win 10 is broken" stories on devRant - by people who don't even have the excuse of being clueless end users.

Win10 doesn't suck, lets be real here.

@theuser Depends on your metric and how much you like ads in your OS.

@saucyatom The sysadmins have a valid win10 complaint. The settings app is still inferior to control panel even after (probably) over 5 years of development.

So what does it mean when you are running code you compiled with gcc version 7.3, you upgrade to version 8.1, you start getting a legit compiler error (which directs you to do a bug report), and your only fallback at the moment is MSVC?

I was pretty impressed that MSVC actually compiled the code and didn't complain about a buncha shit.

Has MS actually grown up in this regard?

@theuser The Settings App is probably the single most infuriating thing about Win10, worse than startmenu ads and all the other crappy bloat and worse then their shitty update qa. One step forward five steps back.

Windows 10 is still rotten inside.

It's not "bad" but it's not good either.

- System control is still a bloody mess
- Design isn't finished
- APIs / ABIs from DOS still exist
- Filesystem is still NTFS
- Lot's of internals are pretty fucked up (eventvwr - most of the stuff you'll see in the eventlogs makes you believe it's a miracle it booted)
- ACLs and Multiuser is a PITA... icacls is a nightmare.
- Registry / Registry permissions
- Preinstalled apps from the questionable Windows store
- Apps are immutable and exist in a pretty heavy isolated path, which makes it impossible to use them for eg "Open with"
- Microsoft Account Fuckery - you only get an local account by begging
- a ""real"" software manager still not exists (brain says it's planned but plan sounded faulty, not sure)
- missing clear platform decision - when I want to use Win for a desktop, why do I need to have Smartphone / Tablet / Lokalisation / ... Shit installed?

I'd come up with more, that's just what came up in my head immediately

I feel like every other dev complaint is about auto updates.

You can put those off for a long damn time before it forces the reboot. If you're going that long...yah fuck your not updated malware / bot box and reboot already.

If company policy says you can't defer updates, bitch at them.

Well, my windows works well and I hate those "win is broken" stories as well.

@theuser except control panel is still there.

@iiii but half the settings can only be made in the new settings app, half in the old control panel. It's an inconsistent shitfest.

@saucyatom true

Microsoft and Windows got less awful in many ways.

Microsoft got way more developer friendly -- friendlier than Apple I'd argue. They actively worked to support Open Source and the Linux community, where Apple just had a Linux-compatible foundation to begin with and actively worked to alienate devs & FOSS.

5 years ago, I thought Microsoft would fuck up VSCode with consumer-unfriendly practices. They didn't. 2 years ago, I thought Microsoft would fuck up Github with ugly Office/LinkedIn integrations. They didn't.

I do think that Microsoft should migrate Windows to a Linux kernel though. And I actually think they eventually will!

The issue with Windows is not "Microsoft is Evil" anymore, which they certainly were at some point, it's that the NT kernel is full of misguided architecture decisions and ancient legacy crap.

Yes, that would mean an emulation layer like Wine on Windows -- But unlike Wine it wouldn't be reverse-engineered, and fully support the Windows/DirectX API.

@bittersweet Give em another 5 years and its back to evil M$.

@bittersweet tje main problem with Win is backwards compatibility with DOS (broken but still) and other ancient stuff

This is why I still run Winhoes 7 on my thonkpad, not only is it the native operating system for that laptop, but it's also far less invasive than the alternative.

Just for gaming though as even in the operating system that this laptop was made for, the mouse driver is a complete and utter pile of dog shit (it's slower than Linux' and much "jerkier").. apparently Windows has an option to make it smoother, but it's basically like using attenuation to make up for a craptacular bottom of the barrel headset microphone with a ton of noise. Linux' mouse driver is like a fully-fledged condenser in comparison.

And it can't even reliably mount a network drive at boot, apparently because it tries to do that before the network comes up - pinnacle of init systems indeed. So even Winhoes 7, no I can't make it my main OS (if it being EOL wasn't enough yet). So aside from gaming, Debian all the way! So much better for any of my productive work.

@theuser I don't think so.

I mean, it's not like they're the most ethical company right now -- I mean: fuck ads on the login screen, and fuck their licensing.

But it seems like the corporate dinosaurs are slowly being crapped out of the company, and they're finally making some better choices.

I think they have little choice but to make Windows 10 a completely free OS in the very near future, earning money from subscriptions like game pass, office, online storage, azure, etc.

At that point, it also stops being interesting to guard, or even use the NT-family source code.

I truly think they will eventually go Google AOSP-style "WOSP", windows open source project, adopting the Linux Kernel, porting/emulating APIs, then shipping it Android-style with their shop & bundled subscription apps.

That would severely reduce their OS maintenance costs -- and I don't necessarily think a Open Source Windows with a "click here to get a 1TB onedrive for x/month" link is all that evil.

@iiii Backwards compatibility can be dropped in favor of emulation, at the cost of performance.

And the performance doesn't matter, because you're emulating old software on a modern overpowered CPU.

Windows Subsystem For Linux runs Linux transparently within an virtual machine -- I think that will eventually swap around.

You'd have a Linux-kernel-driven Windows distribution, which fires up en emulation layer when you start some ancient XP application.

Microsoft can do this in a 100% correct way, because unlike wine/crossover devs, they don't have to do any backwards engineering of APIs.

@Demolishun The compiler excuse doesn't wash. Not only that you can keep using GCC 7.3, you also have Clang. On top of that, you don't even need Windows to cross-compile for Windows.

@bittersweet yeah, exactly. They could have implemented and NT-core emulator with a new core long ago while transitioning to Win10 which was a pretty huge leap after Win7

@Fast-Nop But I LIKE Windows 10. It does what I need.

@iiii Actually, the Win API is already a wrapper for the NT core.

@Demolishun Actively liking it is even worse. ^^

@Fast-Nop oh yeah, it should be WinAPI rather than the NT core.

Unless it's your gaming rig scrap that OS for Mint or something like that. If you want a challenge change it to Mac lol. I've read it's possible but difficult.

@vane yup the most of the masses blindly follow where they are being led. I took the red pill so my eyes are open.

@theuser so true. And there get help app that replaced the original trouble shooter makes me want to shoot myself. I don't need some fake bitch fake chatting me through my issue. I just want troubleshooter to do it without speaking to me fix the issue or at least give me the error log and be done with it. Now it's slow and annoying.

@Fast-Nop We could have a master class on consent using IT and development teams.

@bittersweet WSL2 is a full Linux kernel in windows wrapped in Windows bullshit. The problem I see is that if MS abandons backwards compatibility then they are competing directly with Ubuntu. So they will be sure to drag along all of the IT department favourites like RDP, Active directory, windows policy, third party endpoint protection + policy servers, third party firewalls + policy servers, lettered drive mounting, windows server permissions system integrations, and Internet Explorer 11. There is basically no way for an IT department to make an evolutionary change so Windows is the benevolent leader for life.