If programmers went on a permanent strike civilized world would be back to 18th century within a month. We need a union.

A month ... I wouldn't give it 24 hours

Interesting thought! I have seen office workers with unions.

And to come up with and adhere to quality standards.

We can't have a union because we can't trust each other.

Last time I checked, developers were making ~90-120k, even just out of boot camp.

@sheriffderek you need to put it in perspective.

Silicon Valley figures seem crazy but they give you the same buying power as a 40~80k salary here in the Netherlands, probably even less.

Same goes for the benefits.

So yeah we get paid above average, but it's not all that simple.

@FitzSuperUser the world wouldn't last 1 minute. Things crash all the time. I wonder if there's a stat for how often a server crashes or needs human maintenance/intervention.

@FMashiro Yeah. I agree. The real problem is that the economy as we know it will no longer exist in 5 years and you will get much much less and practically be enslaved by land owners. But hey, I chose to interpret the OP as slightly naive. ; )

@lukegv @sheriffderek salary isnt the only thing you negotiate for with a union. The biggest is general working cknditions. Many devs have great conditions but we need guaranteed flex and remote and i say if we dont get it we strike.

@BirdLawExpert I've never seen a website building sweatshop, but it's likely that most of the items you own were made in one. I guess in general I'm just saying that 'devs' are a bunch bunch of uncultured babies. I don't want a union of them. Try working in a real job like building a house - or a bridge, before you start complaining about unions. You may get what you ask for.

@sheriffderek you mean a real job like 7 years active duty army complete with combat experience?

@BirdLawExpert sounds like you have then! I didn't mean you personally. Have you ever been to a conference where the union tech has to be the one to plug in your computer? The OP can't think that is a good idea... I'm just saying that if developers need a union, why don't we look at the real problem instead of taking advantage of a fragile, momentarily necessary system. Developers don't make the world go round. The businessmen who convinced the population that we need all this trash - do. We are just helping them keep the system unbalanced in a new way.

That's one thing my employer doesn't seem to understand about me being the only person we have to maintain things. If one day I do decide to say I'm not working until you pay me better, things would be down and need human help in under a week.

I am not a person who lives extravagantly, yet my income from my full-time dev job is less than my expenses. I don't need special treatment, I just want to be able to support myself on my salary. Several people have explained that in order to replace me they are going to be paying 50-100% more than what they're paying me now, yet a 5% increase is more than they're willing to pay.(that figure would still be 40% < avg in my area)

I have no interest in unionizing. But I'd support meaningful, revokable certification(s). The ethics of software dev ought to get more press than it does. (e.g. VW "diesel gate")