I am so happy that everybody is building React apps, angular, vue, svelte. There will be so much money when they ask for upgrade and the only way to upgrade is to rebuild it from scratch.

Mark my words.

It's the circle of life...

*Poses nude in the background so the image gets burned into everyone's brain forever*

Start from scratch meaning what exactly?

@wackOverflow I have no idea what the standard will be in future, but I would like both from personal and profetional view to see less js heavy websites, by using html template into rendering what needs to be dynamic. Vanila js to do what needs to be done in js. Handle coplexity as project grow, not start with complex monstrum like SPA are nowadays.

Anyway, as difficult was it to migrate from angularjs to agular 2/4 forward. I see same thing hapenning, a lot of SPA roting into state where it is cheaper to just rebuild it from scrach. Oh React, use Createcomponent, oh no now do Classes, actually do Hooks. Are they retarded ? I haven't seen framework to change syntax 3 times over course of 4 years. Anyway, your React app has 200MG so it is barely functional outside of your locahost internet speed.

And cry when you build a small functionality in 1 month using vanilla JS, while the Framework guy just gets it done.

If you're claiming these frameworks aren't maintainable, you can't be more wrong.

These frameworks are here to stay.

@theabbie The frameworks might stay...

But honestly, especially in JS it's terrifying how the inner structure changes every major version.

And the "build system" or better asset generation seems to change every two month - for more or less good reasons.

I'm not fond of "never changing" like e.g. the Windows API. But in Web / JS development it's definitely out of balance.

No standards. Ever changing basics. Most projects not adhering to semantic versioning. No roadmaps. No "final" deprecations (e.g. Node keeps a lot of old, deprecated, insecure, unmaintained libraries alive). Et cetera...

Whenever I touch web development - nowadays as a sysadmin - I ask myself how one could truly think this is a good idea.... To me it seems completely insane.

@theabbie if you are not able to incrementaly upgrade your project piece by piece, are they more mantainable ? if you get lost in abstraction and simple website takes longer to build because you have to fight toolchain, framework changes, update way you write code, I would say that less abstraction of SSG with in html logic supported by simple parts in vanila js is much better.

Maybe first feature is faster in framework, maybe even second, but after 10 features, different developer, 3 updates to your tooling, I would argue that vanila js is much better. Simply because number of moving pieces and locality of complexity.

@danielstaleiny I would want you to pick any random website on internet, written in vanilla JS and add some feature, sure you could easily glue some code there and make it work somehow, but after a point, it becomes unmaintainable crap, Frameworks make everything structured, atleast you can still maintain it whether it's 1st feature update or 100th.

I am proffesionally for 2 years now. Nothing has really changed. Some new standards, some new features. If you have to redevelop the view after 10years thats just life and a decision. On the web you can use web components with newest syntax and tooling on old ass AngularJS websites if you want to extend your app.
You can keep your 3 year old class based react app and just write new components in function style. Its all backwards compatible on the web. I dont see your problem.

@IntrusionCM Well, here's the catch - Vue didn't change the basics in years and they don't feel unnecessary once you learn more about reactivity 🤷‍♂️
And I agree that frameworks got to learn from this reliable trait.

You know a Platform that major updates dont need code review ? Witch one ? I want to know ... Don't say binary plz

@danielstaleiny we have a few internal SPAs that use React at my work and I can’t imagine having to write a new feature in vanilla js and getting it done within a short deadline. Coming from a small post start up company, I needed to be able to add new features quickly and within a set of standards and using a framework is the best solution. If I was given all the time in the world and the only dev working on a project, maybe I would go the vanilla route. Would be twice as much code to write though :/

@wackOverflow I agree that SPA in vanila is not great, but the solution is not to write SPA in the first place.

@danielstaleiny yeah not everything needs to be a spa or use react. I definitely advocate using the right tool (or less tools) for the job.

@danielstaleiny Thing is, frameworks themselves become a standard where developers do things a certain way.

With vanilla JS it might be easier for the person who is working the code initially, but they create a huuuuuge island where they sit on.

Then you leave and a vanilla JS codebase remains. Complexity is higher, not lower, because while the language used may have been simple, there are no patterns, since a framework would have dictated, "do X in a certain way". No one knows what ideas you followed, no one knows what design you envisioned, no one knows all the special little tweaks you integrated.

One might argue "documentation". True, however that voids the complexity argument for either scenario.