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I would actually say from my experiance at least from where i am from it helps a lot to have any kind of education in the field of software development at least, mostly since its pretty rare as i understand it here to get hired based on skills alone when getting into it. Unlike countries like USA where its "easier" than here at least to get into the field with no background expect from skills and private projects.
Fast-Nop39999263d@Frederick The key difference: in the US, studies have become so expensive that you spend years as broke student and then many years again as broke worker. Basically, the only use of a degree is turning into proof that you either have rich parents or get it as free gift because you're from some minority.
That's why US companies have reacted and recruit talent without degree, and also why the US use the "brain drain" pump from other countries that aren't as fucked up.
Fast-Nop39999263d@Frederick E.g. in Germany, studying isn't entirely for free, but we're talking about a semester fee of around 250 EUR which also covers public transport.
If you and your parents are poor, you can get state student loans of around 1k EUR per month for the regular duration of the studies plus some conditional buffer. If you finish the studies, you have to pay back only 50% of that, and the payback is capped at 10k EUR at most.
Obviously, the tax payer eats the rest of the cost, and I as tax payer am fine with that because the country cannot afford to lose talent just because they're poor. However, I'm not fine with wasting that money on BS degrees such as gender studies and shit.
In the US, it's like $20000 per semester, and that's just the uni, not cost of living. With a master of 10 semesters, that alone puts you with $200k in debt (cost of living not included), and private bankruptcy doesn't get rid of that.
@Fast-Nop Especially fucked up, when you think about the only jobs that is minimum wage or sometimes below wont even hire if you would go/are going to collage/uni. So you cant even pay it off while attending uni or collage.
Realistically speaking i dont think its due to its not free that is the problem but rather the insane prices and how shitty the terms of study loans actually is. And more realistic solution to the problem in US is cut a huge % of the prices and give better terms on the loans and having some coverage for people that isnt well of. (Mostly likely the closes to a middle ground both major parties in USA could come to terms with (if they ever agreed on something))
And just look at education system in Canada even though it isnt free, its so much better in pricing compeared to the current pricing.
The education system is entirely free here and even getting paid money if you are above 18 while doing an education. In the end people dont mind it due to being an investment.
@Fast-Nop in the society (since people are going to pay it back in taxes anyway)
Agreeing on its waste of money on some stupid. But i dont mind most of them that most even though they maybe have a single rare specify purpose in some topic that is hard to get into.
But what pisses me of is shit like Gender studies (we apprently also have here, thought it was some USA bullshit). It has no functional purpose at all. And i am going to judge anyone studying that bullshit.
jeeper5820262dYou don’t need a degree to get a job in IT. Yea you don’t need running shoes to run but it sure fuckin helps
Alt-Tab539262d@Ceren I agree with your post in great detail and I really just can't stand people who look down on one's proud achievements especially if those achievements are easily verifiable and obviously huge.
That said, I just wanted to add that there is however an insane variation in the quality of IT degrees people might receive. Having worked in higher education (in EU), I have encountered an immense number of people with great looking CS or other IT degrees that not only knew very little about theoretical conepts but more crucially did not get *any* meaningful practical education. It shocked me how many CS and SDE courses have barely any actually practical project works, no group projects, not to mention for client projects and have interviewed dozens of "Masters" who can barely write a few lines of shitty code.
I generally dislike comparing names of universities but from my experience there is a very huge correlation between uni reputation and competency.
Ceren347261d@Alt-Tab yes education quality differs.Everyone can write code doing a bootcamp.You don’t have to rock the code or be experienced if it is your first job you need to be supported regardless and trained.It doesn’t matter if you have MS or phd.You learn on the job and that’s OK.You wouldn’t expect an electronics graduate create a car’s circuit board.As a company your duty is train the employee support and teach them.IT industry is very spoilt they want job ready push people not give much,training budget is pluralsight and they want an applause. Masters is broad you’d know about the project delivery,requirement gathering,dealing with stake holders,researching,having your own opinion,how a project is led managed,how to research write present professional reports,yes coding too.Careers progress some become leaders,devs,engineers some stay as coders.They drop a bomb in a meeting and you need to collect the shattered glass.You can up skill coding but you can’t up skill those
hjk1014751259d@Ceren I understand your frustration with people who take a dump on your degree however you do the same to people who have none.
There is not one of two ways to get a career.
It should not matter what a paper says but what you can do and unfortunately I'm my personal experience a master's degree is no proof at all only two of the 5 people I led with a master's degree where competent.
I'm sure they all worked very hard for the degree.
One was super arrogant and kept throwing theory at everything even though it was not relevant.
Another could remember stuff really well but hardly any skills and terribly slow. Nice dude but not suited for a business environment. The third one didn't know anything useful and seemed not to be willing to do anything to change that. So either he just learns shit to get through the subject and forget about it it he cheated.
Ceren347258d@hjk101 this is a generalisation no one is taking a dump on my degree at all. This is a general rant. I hear these from loads of speeches and it started to annoy me.
Nothing personal to anyone I respect everyone who is making “an effort” “either they’re good or bad”, having a degree or not.
I just don’t think writing good code would make someone professional in a work environment. I don’t see this as the main and the most important criteria even though this is software development industry.
I don’t appreciate any “you”, “me” conversations. I shouldn’t feel the need to explain and rephrase or defend myself to targeting personal statements.
PAKA609257dCollege keeps at steady rate of being 30-40 years behind the industry. Since it pays way lower wages than private sector, naturaly academia attracts the sore bottom of specialists, it's dominated by morons who couldn't do the job in real world, detached theoreticians and old wrecks waiting for retirement. It's a waste of time and everything that people learn there has to be purge from their minds as they start their first real job because it's simply wrong and useless. And sorry but you have to be a real dummies to claim that college degree is hard, all I did during mine was drink beer, play video games and memorize answers to tests that did not change in 20 years.
fiftyhz479161dThis is a great discussion. I simply could have been plucked from my USA high school, trained by a company in an IT role, and probably would have wound up right where I am today. However, I would not be the same person without my university degree, nor would I have the connections I have today. A university degree isn’t necessarily an investment in your “job”, it’s more of an investment in you. There are things you learn that follow you through life like communication, friendship building, critical thinking about not just technical, but social issues. You don’t need a degree for these things of course, but I feel the university experience helps strengthen these skills.
jiraTicket1500161d@PAKA Educations can vary immensely. even within the same college and program the skill level of classes can vary between different years. Talked to people who took the same comp sci as me and a few years later they added a some nightmare classes, and they pushed all the difficult classes to year 1 which made a ton of people quit early compared to my day when people got similar classes later on and got a chance to warm up during year 1.