a friend of mine has applied at a company who have sent them this task* to complete before the job interview.
They gave about 10 days to complete this.
*I rewrote it

Personally I think this is super overblown and way too much to complete as a test before the first interview.
They expect the applicant to configure an SQL database, a backend with a custom API and a UI.
It's like a fullstack prototype software, not a task.
Im not in web development and I wouldn't feel confident learning these technologies in my free time in just a few days.

I said that this felt like some HR manager writing up the test or that they want the applicant to create a prototype for free.
Am I being too extreme here? To me it feels overkill, what do you all think? Is this common?

Oh and I should mention, this is for an internship position for a bachelors student.

I don’t know if it’s common but I definitely agree that it’s overkill.

I had a similar test but as someone with 3 years experience I was able to do it just fine.

Though I wasn't asked to use js Framework, I just used ThymeLeaf and Sprint MVC.

That being said, I wasn't given a server to deploy it on. Luckily I had my own already, but no idea what a person without a server would do...

Sometimes the requirements are rodiculous

i mean... this could be completed in two days of dedicated work (one day if you were in a hurry or creative rush), but as a "test" before even the first interview? if i were 18 i wouldn't realize and would just do it. but i'm not that dumb nowadays, so i would just tell them to go fuck themselves.

@Hazarth A person without a server can always run database in docker or install it locally. If you need a server to do it, you've already failed the most basic requirement.

Also this seems like a pretty standard one-day feature for most data-driven apps where users can define their own filters for some data view.

On UI all you need to do is a single view: a list with 3 inputs (attribute name, operation, target value), a generic data table component for displaying the filtered results, and some dropdown list where you can load or delete stored filters. On the backend it's one CRUD route for filters and one GET route for the data, a simple table for storing filters, and another to store the conditions for the filters. For filtering the data just convert each condition into an SQL syntax (they map pretty much 1:1 based on the description) and just join them with AND to get your statement. DONE.

Sounds a lot like they are outsourcing work to unpaid job applicants to me. 🤷

@hitko you make it sound very easy, and it might be easy for a seasoned fullstack dev.

But this is for an internship. A student's internship

@LotsOfCaffeine for a senior Dev it's easy enough but a bit much, for an intern they are crazy

@Hazarth use SQLite?

@iSwimInTheC not just for DB but for actual deployment and public facing url

@Hazarth Where does it say anything about public deployment? You're overthinking this. There's no need for a server, no need to have users, no need to have authentication, just a single frontend view, a CRUD route on the server, and 3 basic tables in the DB. You can use a frontend framework of your choice, and all you need for the server is connect to DB and write a few route handlers. All you're expected to know is some really basic SQL, basics of a well-known REST framework for Java, and one JS framework. All of that is literary covered in two "getting started" articles on the Spring website, the only part the candidate is expected to do on their own is figure how to store a simple list of conditions to a database and use it to create a query, and how to combine a few widgets to make simple UI.

Even if it's an intern position, a full stack dev has to show some basic DB, server, and front-end skills. If you think a single CRUD route and two tables with a foreign-key dependency (plus one table with some random data to query) is too much to do in a framework which already handles 99% of it, then you're the problem, not the company. You're also the exact type of garbage candidate the company is trying to avoid, especially considering bachelor-level students should've covered all that in less than a month.

am I the only one who noticed the "frontent" and "frontand"?

Yes, this is way too much for an internship position, or any position for that matter, unless its a really exclusive job which happens to be your dream job, or the only job available in the market.

Luckily for you the world is in sparse need of good developers at there's plenty of demand out there. Keep looking

@hitko There are better ways to test a persons knowledge and experience with fullstack dev work than to make him/her develop a MVP or a PoC.

It looks like they were lazy in writing the requirements and dont want to deal with the hassle of a long interview

@hitko Whoa whoa where's the hate coming from?

I'm not saying it was hard or anything, and no idea what having or not having a server has anything to do with "basic requirements". I could've packaged the the spring service in a standalone jar if I wanted and used local storage instead of a database and ofc I sent it over anyway with all the instructions on how to set it up in a README. But do I trust random company people that I never met to run my code? no... ofc not... I treat random company people like I tried my clients... I assume nothing.. which means the best way to do the interview demo is doing full deployment...

I didn't expect to be called garbage for demonstrating I can do full deployment on top of precise documentation... but I guess you can't please everyone? You wont be pleased to hear that I got the job (like 2 years ago) and I'm a pretty high performing garbage :(

honestly, interviews should be much much easier. And Interview should be a very rough filter only, there's a reason why probation periods exist... You get 3 months (here at least) of no-questions-asked time when you can quit/fire someone... So why in the world do we waste everyones time on 4 rounds of interview and week long demos, if you can actually practically test the actual dev in real environment almost immediately...

review the resume, meet in person for first impressions and judge of character, hire the least offensive ones.... if it doesn't work out you'll know in the first month...

but nooo, instead you spend 3-4 months dragging various people through demos and interviews with every manager and their mother just to say "you're just not the right fit for us right now".

come on, we all surely agree that it's bullshit :)

@Hazarth Interesting take. I would like to add onto this that a project can be very indicative of a person's willingness to try and do something. Even if they don't complete the project they can at least come to the interview with a report of what they tried to do, why they failed, where they tried to go next, and the lessons they learned.

The 2nd biggest thing behind skillset, if not the first, is communication. If a developer can't be good at that especially if this company is looking for those abilities then it's a fair assessment of the candidate and justification for moving onto the next candidate.

@Hazarth yeah well, you raised valid points.

The other side of the coin is based on the assumption that the most valuable asset of a company is the people it has. One person can make a company, and also destroy it.

Therefore you must be very careful who you recruit to your company.

(I'm not talking about freelancers and other services or third-party providers)

I'd say it's reasonable for mid/senior fullstack engineer, not internship.

@hitko

>Even if it's an intern position, a full stack dev has to show [...]

>a full stack dev

this is a student's position, again.

If this was a regular full stack engineering position then fair game, someone with experience would easily do that. But someone who just completed the first programming classes in uni? come on

@bioDan the typo is probably mine, I summarized the actual thing up to make it quick to read, it was like over a page long with a mockup UI on top

I mean they are still missing the CI/CD Pipeline.