Hi all. I just have a quick question. Why is Wordpress so hated in the web development community? Is it not considered "real@ development? As someone who is decent in HTML and CSS, should I use Wordpress to make websites or just stick to HTML and CSS (trying to learn JS at the moment)

it's hated mostly because of it's hacky made plugins, which are (ab)used to force wordpress into what it wasen't intended to be. It's a Blog CMS not a webshop and so on.

@heyheni It also has a very old and messy codebase.

Using Wordpress to make simple websites or blogs isn't necessarily a bad idea (For all its flaws it can save you a lot of time when you use it for the things it is good at), loading up 200 badly written plugins to turn it into something its not however is often a big mistake.

Add to the above that it's coded in php - the worst language _ever_!!

@JohanO Thats a bit unfair, brainfuck is probably worse.

Okay so if I'm understanding correctly, it's the plugins that make it a bad choice? Along with the themes being coded in php?

It's a mess and quickly becomes an unholy clusterfuck, when people start installing "plugins"..

Or at least that's my opinion.
Mind you, I haven't touched it for the last year or so.

@console quick run down on Grav, please?

@console I was just reading the documentation. It seems very interesting, I'm going to have to get my feet wet with it first to understand it's full capabilities. Thank you for mentioning it though, I love learning about new resources/software!

Just my 2 cents, but try drupal, its similar but more secure

@RazorSh4rk I'll check that out as well, thank you.

@JohanO Next to Java 🤓

Wordpress (and any big CMS, Joomla and Drupal are the same) is hated because it's a level of abstraction too high for developers (and those abstractions are at times bad and buggy too, see all comments about plugins).

Now, what are GOOD reasons to use WP?
- you want to allow non-dev to write articles. WP admin panel is one of the good parts
- you are a developer and will understand how to do things correctly (don't install 200 plugins, and modify WP correctly instead of butchering it)
- you have a mostly static website serving articles and pages

My personal REALLY disliked "feature" is having ALL objects ("posts" in WP vocabulary) in the same table. Pages, articles, client orders ... If it's a custom post type, it's in there. HOW THE HECK DO I DEPLOY???!!! (explanation: I can't copy pages and articles from staging to prod, because if I do that I also overwrite client orders which are created on prod only)

Id say because WordPress Makes you write alot of bad insecure php to achieve something.

@whatthefuck
Glad to know I'm not alone on this.
I searched and couldn't find anyone that had issues with this... I guess almost no one look at the tables or use dev/staging environments. That makes me sad.