University is not there to teach anyone to code. Drops the mic.

Only drop the mic if it's your own.

@electrineer xD

Lmfao

Preach sista!

@noogli not only one but several 😘

Hear, hear! Learning to code is far beneath a university curriculum. Read a book if you want to learn to code.

Guys wtf in every curriculum in every subject at least in my country u learn basics first ... Are expecting that a med learns physics or biology without in his sparetime?

@noogli

Physics and biology are demanding subjects. Programming is not.

I agree that many, if not most CS programs include programming instruction, but it's a waste of precious time and mountains of money. The way it should be done is that if programming knowledge is required for a course, student hopefuls have to pass an assessment to be eligible to take the course.

Well I only can tell from my uni we get usually 1- 2 weeks to learn the basics of a technology during this time we get thought basic then we get one big or a few smaller assignments which will be greaded during these projects we get support from tutors. But usually u end up browsing so.

So basically they tech u 1,5 years browsing so not how to program.
What is a big problem in my eyes.

Unless your degree is a specialist one that specifically was tailored to teach Pascal, Visual basic, javascript, html, SQL, whatever magic Cisco uses in their gear etc.

And then fails to do any of the above.

Like mine did...

University has taught me more about thinking about how to code, than actually coding

This is the first time i hv seen a person's every comment gettin -- 😂😂

Yeah, I upvoted his comments back. He's not trolling, and he's explaining his comments, so I'm not seeing a good reason he should be downvoted. Also, that's a pretty rotten way to welcome someone to devrant.

@bahua people we don't agree are not welcome. (Not)

Anyway, i get the point. University will teach some coding.. with no best practices, no real coding processes, no real-world stuff and most of all: No team work and no communication skills.

That is why you se so many students ranting about stupid people and stupid co-students

Why drop the mic? that's the tuition right there.

Universities teach fundamental CS knowledge and programming basics. The people on this app have a hard on for saying coding is easy though. Coding is not easy. Software engineering is not easy. You know what's easy? Flippin' burgers. And even then that's emotionally taxing because people suck.

To say universities shouldn't teach *any* coding is a bit silly, and moot. You need a way to demonstrate your knowledge and skill. In an ideal world, University would be so selective that only strong programmers would graduate, but in a realistic world, those types of schools are expensive and exclusive and that standard is too high for someone barely into their 20s.

Not everyone starts coding at 12 and has 8 years experience when they start school. Coding isn't easy. Be nice.

@Crazed @mundo03 @Autism420 @bahua @noogli

First, it is not the purpose of university, but it could be in there somehow.

Second, programming can be easy (ie. building a simple site or app), but it can also be hard (eg. building an OS).

Third, some programming is taught at the university and in a lot of cases could be done better in the same amount of time.

Fourth, professional programming level is only achieved professionally (while giving a shit about getting there). University cannot and should not strive for that.

Jesus Christ, people have a stick up their butt on here. People learn in different fashions. You can read a book, go to a coding boot camp, or university. Get over yourself if you think your method is superior.

@Mox4 we are talking about university in particular, but ok.

I would say that the most important skill in university is learning how to learn.

When I say learning to code I mean professionally. Sure building a hello world app isn't that difficult, but it won't get you anywhere either, other than on to learn other things.

Becoming skilled and self aware enough and poising yourself for advancement takes grit and dedication. When people act like coding is as easy as riding a bike it rustles my jimmies. Coding isn't intuitive or simple or concise or narrow. It's like, the opposite of all of those. It's difficult for the most common reasons that anything is difficult for, lol.

But yeah, college is about building you to go hours on end researching and learning to accomplish a task. Prior to college, I never did that. Now it's comfortable and honestly made me a better dev.

@Crazed I definitely agree. I have no degree and taught myself going on 4 years now. And one thing that's constant is learning... not all people have the dedication or grit to constantly learn and improve without getting complacent; once you feel like you're satisfied is when you stop being better. For some going through a uni is best to learn how to learn, to be consistent and to get inspired. However there's more routes than that and the irony is you can learn both the cs curriculum and programming with all the free resources that's out there, but that's too daunting of a task for most because it takes holding yourself accountable and to learn as much as possible.

It's just there to take your time and money just to give you a piece of paper in return.

Like a poorly coded function.

@bahua I think you're under playing the time required to learn programming. It takes a lot of time to learn programming if you want to do anything past the basics.

@dalastTomCruise

I don't think I'm underplaying it, but maybe I am. It's a technical discipline that takes a lot of study and practice, like fixing a car or an air conditioner. It can be learned independently, or with vocational technical training. But training is not an education.

Mathematics, physics and biology can be learned independently. I don't see your point. Programming can be super abstract and hard just like math or physics, and yes programming is a trade/craft but It's a very broad and abstract trade that's not just learning a language but understanding a multitude of things (frameworks, databases, security, best practices, design pattern, algorithms, ect).

@bahua you said it's not demanding, I disagree. Programming is intellectual labor and requires a lot of thought to build and improve things. There's a reason you make up to 70-120k as a software developer.

My point is that programming is a trade skill. The purpose of trade skill training is explicitly to qualify for skilled employment. Employment qualification is a side effect of education, the purpose of which is the enrichment of the mind. Education is not for job training.

@dalastTomCruise

I apologize for saying it is not demanding. It most certainly is.

@bahua my point is programming can be very demanding. And college isn't the only way to get an education. I think college can be an excellent route but isn't the only one. Also software developers are required to constantly learn things and if that's not enriching the mind than I don't know what is.

@dalastTomCruise

Almost any skilled person has to continue learning and training to stay viable and valuable, but the majority of that learning is done outside campus walls. I learned far more about my field by working in it than I ever did in a classroom.

@bahua no worries bud and I don't mean to come off as hostile just grinds my gears when people see programming as easy as riding a bike and yet the most complicated thing they've built was a hello world app.

@bahua exactly, so if you can learn on your own and gain considerable knowledge wouldn't you considered that person educated?

@dalastTomCruise

I would not, but thankfully, that is not for me to decide.

@bahua ok so what deems some knowledge more important than other? That's what's flawed with the education system if you don't go through xyz you're not educated. Horseshit.

The problem I see with this line of discussion is that education is not really a well-defined term, while training absolutely is. "Training," lacks the emotional attachments in the word, "education."

For example, if you have a certificate of training, it's generally accepted that you have the knowledge explicitly listed in said training. But if you have a higher education degree, a hundred people will have a hundred opinions as to whether or not you are, "educated."

@bahua training is education is my point. Knowledge is knowledge. If you learned mathematics through college or trained on your own it doesn't matter if in the end you know it. That's my point with all of this. We are progressing to a state where education (resources) are becoming omnipresent and free. You can very well become very educated without any college whether that comes from knowledge through training or knowledge through resources.