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@Stuxnet you merely adopted whiteness, I was born in it...molded by it. 😂
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"This new code of conduct aims, believe it or not, to change the predominantly white, straight, and male face of programming and it also seems to 'mitigate the consequences of dogmatic meritocracy'."
So... are they going to put anything in effect ie. penalties for hiring white straight males or is it just suggestions?
Hopefully not :/ -
@qwerty77asdf it's very broad and not at all specified in the CoC which has been the cause of A LOT of the "misuse" even tho it's my guess the intention of it was just that, more political policing.
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@qwerty77asdf from my understanding:
All contributions can be audited by ??? and contributors or contributions which are not liked can be permanently banned for no good reason from ever contributing again.
In retaliation many devs are threatening to revoke the copyright on their portions, essentially making those portions closed source and nondistributable. -
@Proximyst it doesn't matter, you're more than welcome to mention it, even explain 😉
This kind of attitude from incompetent motherfuckers is absolutely irritating.
Never was I against different people, one of my closest friends from teenage days was gay, some were very corky... I'm still weird.
But this kind of bullshit will change my mind. And I'll start to generalize, it will not matter what kind of person you are, if, in MY opinion, you're any different I'll brutalize you. Fucking whiny assholes!
It is no longer about acceptance and tolerance, they want absolute dominance. Crap like that leads to wars. -
@nnee One of the leaders of the new cock decided it'd be a good idea to call out someone who was a rape apologist who didn't sign it. This is in violation of her very own cock, and she may very well be permanently suspended of contributing to the project she got her own cock into
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@Proximyst thanks. Do you have source handy?
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Reluctant to hop on the cis white male victim train, cause that’s what the KKK has been saying since it’s inception...
I think that tech (and life) should be inclusive, and we can make strides to include marginalized people more. But it shouldn’t be at the expense of anybody else and it’s preferential treatment should end before a PR is made. -
@jeeper KKK started that crap themselves.
We have found ourselves in the middle of giant bullshit out of nowhere. I know there is a lot of bad things happening but this in tech is completely unjustified and unnecessary. They are fighting in the wrong way at wrong place. -
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As a "tinted" person (most just call me black but w/e, I am not bothered at all the white people around me in the slightest.
neither about the gay people around me (as long as they don't make it obnoxious) neither women around me.
As project leader at work, I pick my team based on skill, not ethnicity, gender or disabilities (unless you're an obnoxious sjw... then you can piss off).
Unless your "differences" make you obnoxious, I don't give a shit if your skill is up-to-par.
Even if you're an obnoxious white male that only complains without moving work, you're out of the team for me.
This social justice bullshit is seriously getting out of hand... -
I wouldn't have imagined this a short time ago (the python fuckup), but... Man... This is fucked up. I do agree with you.
I do think it's neccessary to follow up rape accusations and so forth, but kicking people out without a "fair trial" is against everything I (and probably most "lefties" belive in). -
So why is it only straight white men have to worry about being rape apologists or "exclusionary" etc. From what I've gathered from this whole debate (and I don't think it, and I'm sure many people here don't think it, but it seems they do), being gay, trans, nonbinary, female, any color other than white, etc gives them a special right to start banning people and destroying the technology that almost every device in the world runs.
Fun fact: windows 10 ships with WSL. embedded devices, smart devices, or anything with a processors probably runs BusyBox or Alpine. Mac is BSD based, servers are obviously linux, I think it's semi safe to say that almost every device in the world made since 2016 that runs above a few MHz has Linux or a UNIX variant either running or installed. SO WHY THE FUCK ARE WE DOING THIS!!!!!!?????!!!!! -
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@nnee I don't, but there are lots if you search something ala "Linux code of conduct rape apology"
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How about a CoC about CoCs?
1. Civil discussion about the position LGBT & women in tech is important -- But it should take place on social media, not in PR discussions, repository mailing lists, code comments or Code of Conducts.
2. There should be more women and other minorities in tech, ideally representative of the population as a whole. Minorities should be made to feel welcome, simply by treating all peers with equal respect. This is not achieved by artificially hiring unskilled people to meet diversity quota, but by treating racist/sexist behavior at the roots and by hiring based on merits, blind to gender or color.
3. Striving to be a meritocracy is a truly good thing. Diversity is important, but accepting a shit patch from someone just because of their gender/race/etc is just as discriminatory as the opposite. Not only does it damage the product -- Lack of justified criticism on content also stifles a person's opportunities to improve themselves.
4. Using the slur "privileged straight/cis white male" towards an individual has no place in civilized discussion, nor do insults to this whole group. Besides the clear racist/sexist/hetero-phobic undertones of this rhetoric, no single group is homogeneous in their economic position, convictions or even genetic ethnicity. -
If anyone of significance withdraws their licence, does that mean every release since their first commit has to be taken down? What about the git repo- will it necessitate painstakingly reviewing everything since to reconstruct a history without them, followed by a force push to master? Because without all this you're still redistributing the withdrawn code. (Reverting is not enough.)
And how would it affect distros, Android, third-party patch sets, books etc? -
@bittersweet well elaborated but it might be too intellectually demanding for most sjw pricks and prikcesses.
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@d4ng3r0u5 no, such things are legally bound upon change of contract. Previously you gave your consent and can't change history or demand someone makes huge steps in changing it for you.
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@deadPix3l yeah basically
@Proximyst these people don't get irony
@Charon92 that's the cult of diversity, a cult after all
@Proximyst 😂 fucking genius
@FinlayDaG33k all project leaders should follow your example.
@yatanvesh that reminded me of count dankula and the pugg debacle -
@Proximyst it can also be found on the first link I used as source
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Lul, yes, this is gonna be a fight of epic proportions, the (real) developers vs. the SJW cucks.
Let me get this out of the way, I'm also against the CoC.
But holy shit what you write is a load of garbage, I'll tell you exactly what will happen to Linux: nothing. Greg will do the next release, most developers and companies will still contribute code and nothing in the daily workflow will change. (We can come back to this in a year and see how things changed).
Yes, some developers might leave out of ideological reasons, and as always you guys come with the LLVM example. And as big of a loss the leaving Avila was, LLVM did not went down the shitter. (Btw. which Linux core developers left the project since this started?)
Also regarding the rescinding of copyright, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure this is not how it works since it would be a major oversight and create tons of issues in tons of other GPLv2 projects. But I'll change my mind if there will be a precedence. -
@bootleg-dev I appreciate your rage, but my rant is not about what will happen to Linux or if there will be consequences at all, my rant is about developers not taking it up the ass which makes me happy.
Regarding legality, R. Stallman pointed out there is precedence and it's a "threat with teeth".
Regarding your last comment, I don't endorse the strawman, I never said "destroy everything I don't like" that would make me an SJW what I would say tho (and many devs too) is "I'm taking my code with me because you have maliciously kicked me out of a project you painted as a meritocracy" it's different because they have the right to do it and the code is theirs. -
If anyone wants to be more inclusive, create your DAMN PROJECT, work your ass off and give value to the world. AFTER THAT, put anyone they want with any shitty rule.
For the fucks sake, that's the world problem. The system is shit? Do something, grow power and value with your own hands. No, the actual way it's whining and moaning until get what want. Shit.
No one can easily acquire respect freely, every single one of us must work our ass off for that. Your family, your skin (!!!), your SEXUAL ORIENTATION should be nothing towards the evolution of the world knowledge.
This deeply enrages me to a point that turns me blind sometimes. It's such hatred been called love with their pure weaknesses giving the direction of the life of EVERYONE (not only theirs!) and, in the end, I don't have utter power in my skills to do something VALUABLE besides this raging comment.
Wants inclusion? Fight for it providing value for the others. Specially the ones that you claim protection. Shit. -
@capcj well speaking out is doing something, but if I ever reach success with a startup or an open project I'll make sure to make it a meritocracy.
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@JKyll You sure about that Stallman thing? Or how about lulz.com is a garbage source. Look at that: https://web.archive.org/web/...
I quote (from Stallman presumably): "The developers of Linux, or any free program, can remove any and all code, at any time, without giving a reason. However, this doesn't force others to delete that code from their own versins of the program."
So now another question pops up, why did lulz.com change the narrative?
So no, unless there is a real precedence this rescinding of copyright thing is pure armchair lawyer bullshit probably to give someone the feeling that devs (obviously only if their views align with yours) are not "taking it up the ass".
Also what different is this "rescinding of copyright thing" from trying to blackmail projects (by threatening to remove code) because they do not align with your views anymore? -
@DLMousey Yes, this is the slippery slope argument and I agree it's not impossible that this might happen.
However chances for this happening are very slim, especially in the Linux kernel, time will prove if I was right.
But I think that the outrage is out of proportion in any case, I did not check it, but I would bet a good beer that there were at least 2 rants every day related to this topic. And then are rants like this where there is some garbage ideas to try to force projects into a certain direction by essentially trying to blackmail/sabotage them. -
@bootleg-dev lulz claimed they contacted him directly, is it true? I'm not sure, gotta take it with a grain of salt like everything on the internet.
It is not blackmailing, blackmailing implies a threat of injury for economical remuneration, the code is theirs, it has always been and according to the GPLv2 they don't rescind their rights to it they just gave the project license to use it (license that can be withdrawn).
As I said, I don't like it, I don't like people claiming they'll remove their contributions; but I am glad developers who contributed their effort to the project are not letting some lazy ass millennials take over it not to improve upon, but rather police and ban people from the project.
As always, the free market will dictate what sticks and most of us know how things like this end. -
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@windlessuser I have always enjoyed how Tim explains things, I do agree, devs have made a valid point, let's just remove politics (specially identity politics) out of programming and move on. Let's hope they don't use that legal recourse because it could cripple the project and leave a bad precedent for GPLv2 projects.
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@JKyll I never said it is true, that why I explicitly wrote "from Stallman presumably" and don't worry I take stuff with enough grain of salt.
But you use it as an argument for the legal feasibility of this: "Regarding legality, R. Stallman pointed out there is precedence and it's a "threat with teeth"."
And since lulz.com changed their narrative here, I would say you argument is voided.
And maybe it's not blackmail in some dictionary definition (too lazy to look it up now), but it still boils down to: "remove the CoC or I remove my code", which is essentially threatening harm to a project if they do not fulfill the request. Which also boils down to "I prefer to harm this projects if they do not what I say".
"As always, the free market will dictate what sticks ..."
Yes, I agree, and that's why I think this outrage is way out of proportion, because Linux is used in so many commercial settings, there is no way the Linux project will go down the shitter anytime soon. -
@bootleg-dev never said it will go down the shitter, of course it won't.
And I agree, removing the code would set a bad precedent for GPLv2 projects only but it's not blackmail, it's more like ToS. Imagine I lended you my car indefinitely and then you ran over my dog, I want my car back unless you promise you won't ran over other people's dogs, is it blackmail? I guess you could say that, but not really.
This only affects the GPLv2 as I understand and has been corrected on v3, as I said, I don't agree with it, I don't like it and I don't want them to do it; I would just like for people to stop cramming politics into software and for developers to ignore crybaby activists. -
@bootleg-dev I'd be interested in the views of "the other side". Any articles you could reccomend?
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@bootleg-dev on the outrage subject, believe it or not I agree, too much outrage, however, I'm glad developers are rejecting politics in software regardless of whose politics.
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@Wack No, I don't have any articles on the "other side". I don't need articles to come to the conclusion that this outrage is overblown.
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@bootleg-dev completly agree, that the outrage is overblown. I'd still like to understand the decision.
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@JKyll The comparison between contributing code and lending a car is pretty flawed on many levels. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure GPLv2 code contributions to a project doe not fall under the same category as lending a car.
Also if this would be possible under the GPLv2 we should have at least a precedence by now, it's not like the GPLv2 is new and there are thousands (if not more) projects using it.
Also just imagine the implications if this would really be possible, there would be tons of issues in all of the bigger GPLv2 projects. Another implication would be that GPLv2 projects would be even more careful to accept contributions, because an individual contributor can decide to be a shitbag (for whatever reasons) and harm/blackmail the project. So no, this is not and never will be possible (I will change my mind when it happens).
So think about it (and the implication) for a second and see if you really in favor of this mechanism, just to own some SJW's ... -
@Wack Which decision?
The decision to not be outraged? What does it really give you to be outraged? Unless you are a core contributor to the Linux kernel your outrage will very likely not change any decisions, or even worse it might harden the fronts (leading to more "us vs. them" thinking on both sides). The only think you achieve by creating outrage is that your blood pressure rises and you create an echo-chamber with people around yourself agreeing with you.
And then those stupid ideas come up like rescinding your code which you contributed to a GPLv2 project. Already the assumption that this would be possible is stupid. But then also welcoming and being in favor of this (possible) GPLv2 mechanism, just to show to the SJW's, that developers will not "take it up the ass". This is even more stupid, because this mechanism would have far more reaching implications then just owning the SJW's. -
@Wack So even if it would be possible to remove the CoC from the kernel using this mechanism, the means would not justify the ends, since the precedence would be huge and allow for any butthurt GPLv2 contributor to pull back his code.
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@bootleg-dev read my comments above, as I've said numerous times I don't favour the approach I rather dislike it.
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I don't get it. If Linux is such a hellish white patriarchy, why not just fork it? I mean, to try such a coup, these sjw must be a lot and quite versed in programming.
...If not, why are we even letting them force their own idiotic views? This is supposed to be a meritocratic system. This is a farse. -
@Null0x90 Truth to be told, the CoC version on that website looks almost nice. It seems to be advocating a sort meritocracy where the top guys shouldn't behave like assholes and simply go on insulting everyone, no matter how much good code they commit... It also says they should keep such behaviour within the project environment, not in their everyday life.
...Did I read it wrong? Or do those people have no idea of what they actually wrote?? -
This is all moot at this point. The moment the threat was confirmed real, this should have been yesterday's news.
It's straightforward, either send the trash CoC back to the pit, or the Kernel will be torn asunder.
Calling the revolters names at this point is rather imbecilic. All they have to do is put in writing that they rescind their contribution and it's game over. -
@irene @JKyll Well great. This is why we can't have nice things.
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@irene I mean we're at the point where can't trust in the common sense of others at all. A vague "don't be assholes" remark results in disturbed people who feel threatened/offended by everything to speak up and start a fire over every little thing they don't like. It's useless (and sort of impossible) to write a CoC which delineates every single scenario or which mimics decent common sense, and even so such people would still feel offended by something. Just... WTF.
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@irene That's undoubtly true generally, but it was about greediness, personal gain and such. Stuff that can be sort of predicted and worked around, especially in OS environments... Because there was a common goal to develop something useful.
But THIS... This is madness. The common goal shifted from developing software to advocating lunacy (while the development has been demoted to a by-product).
I just want the 90s back. Fewer people on the net, no smartphones and barely java :< -
@soulsuke love this. The normification of of the internet must me undone!
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@irene But the snowflakes are starting to become so many... It may as well turn into an ice age >.>
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@irene tbh most of the time people talking shit about snowflakes are the real snowflakes
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@irene We as a society give small groups the loudest voices, and it's kinda a problem.
I never saw the point in me breaking my back for a small group when there's a much larger one to care about.
But that gets me called all kinds of names like: Nazi, racist, homophobic, cracker (ironic, isn't it?), and so on. These words are very diluted in their actual meanings, these days. -
@Stuxnet We live in an age where every idiot with a keyboard can access the internet and spread his own rablings to every other smartphone. Plus, we have an excessive amout of guillable idiots who are ready to believe everything they read.
We would just need to set up a wis/int check for every access to the internet (or to earn the right to live past the age oglf 18), and the problem would be solved...
@irene screw ovens. We have volcanoes for that! -
@irene But you can't bake a big cake in a volcano D:
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I agree wholly. I think that's what the majority of people are saying. It's not a matter of who you are, what colour your skin is etc. It has nothing to do with clean, safe code.
We(the less judgemental 90+%) literally do not care about you or your background, if you had a shower today or yesterday. It is nothing to do with clean code.
Results speak for themselves. This is why I like the Linux community. Objective driven. No time for trivialities like this.
It is unnecessary and and a waste of time!
Linux is linus' baby; thousands of hours of work, stressful days, sleepless nights pondering optimisations etc.
Just because some pricks with more mental health issues than I can count 'don't agree with the tech world' does NOT mean we should bend over and be ass fucked by them.
If you feel you need more trans/gay/female/whatever coders, go and help them code! Teach them! Show them how we do things
I'd happily go to hell before I let some SJW types try and change his life's work. -
@irene So? The cake being edible wasn't in the specifics. Besides, the deadline for the cake delivery has been moved to right now. So... Let's heat some flour with a lighter, if it doesn't explode we'll put it in a nice box and send it to the client right away!
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what a bunch of bullcrap! if someone contributes to my OS project, how the fuck should i know if the contributor is black, white, yellow, green, pomerian or purple cthulhu transgendered spawn. who the fuck cares, code is what matters!
why isn't there code of conduct that says: no matter what color, gender and species you are, if your code sucks, we can help you get better and if that doesn't happen on some period of time, you will politely be asked to leave the fucking project! write good code and don't be an asshole!
fucking snowflakes! imagine that somebody submits bullshit code and get rejected! wow no biggie if you are white male. if you are lets say green dragon. this is all because i'm green and a dragon, you humans hate dragons because we are different! no dude we hate your ass because you're an asshole, but prior to that you write shitty code. deal with that you fucking snowflake!
this stupidity pisses me off! -
Well, the inventor and author of the CC CoC is known to deliberately violating their own CoC any time they f*cking want to. Why? Because the CC CoC is a political weapon. Nothing more, nothing less.
Just read it carefully. Its wording is just vague enough to allow to make up anything about anyone to do anything to them they like. God-like powers FTW!
Another dev on my team just got a new machine. Before he came in today I made two separate USB installers and ...
Linux developers threaten to pull the kill switch...talking about giving people the finger this week...
If you have been following the nerd news these last weeks you may have heard about Linus leaving Linux (temporarily) and implementing the new CoC (pronounced cock) code of conduct thanks to the constant pressure of the ABC of inclusion (LGBTQLMNOP+ groups).
This new code of conduct aims, believe it or not, to change the predominantly white, straight, and male face of programming and it also seems to "mitigate the consequences of dogmatic meritocracy".
That's right, are you white, male, straight or otherwise pull yourself out of the mud? Yes, YOU are part of the problem (also racist, sexist and probably islamophobic).
Bullshit I know, these SJW privileged upper class assholes are pushing for these changes to inspire witch-hunts against good devs like Larry Garfield (cause: sexual fetishes) and give themselves more power over the free speech of people.
Ironic if you ask me because I haven't seen anything similar for oil rigging which is riddled with cis males (but ain't as comfy).
But not everything is lost and that's why this hasn't been a mouth foaming rant because boy I'm proud to know there are devs with balls out there; It seems there's a little detail with the GPL2 license and all those unjustly banned by the new stupid racist ass CoC can withdraw the license to their contributions crippling the Linux kernel project.
I'm not happy that GNU/Linux is being threatened like so, but it was about time we put a stop to this, your politics, skin color, religion and ideas should not matter when developing code, what matters is the code you produce.
Want to politicize our repos and kick out devs just because they don't think the way you do? Let's see how long you last without the contributions of the "deplorables"; let us see how many good contributions your new "diverse", PC stack do (other than changing master/slave or other terms).
My guess...as I've said earlier, everything these PC busybodies touch, if unchecked, crumbles to dust. (EA 😉)
Sources:
https://lulz.com/linux-devs-threate...
https://contributor-covenant.org//
https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/...
rant
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