What IDIOT designed this up? And I see that’s common in most laptops these days!

"Is that why people switch to Vim?"

😎

@24th-Dragon is it pain though? Somehow I find xps kbd very comfy. Incl arrows.

Yes it's a PITA. Most laptops don't have a usable keyboard anymore. On my business laptop (Dell Lattitude) they even eliminated dedicated home/end keys, navigating text is ridiculous.

Problem is, non-tech people (the vast majority...) don't need cursor keys anymore, so you rather get multimedia keys and such crap instead of the basic keys.

What IDIOT buys a mac?

@ddephor Have you tried modifiers with the arrow keys?

@Mizz141 I was given one of the touchbar ones by my last employer. I told them I can not use that trash #VIMftw.

They said I had no choice because security and standardization. I promptly terminated myself.

Because why not

@ribchinski Lenovo still produces them

@24th-Dragon fat fingers? 😁

@ribchinski it’s not just Macs - identically idiotic keyboard is in almost EVERY new laptop PC...

@ddephor In my previous gig, they replaced my earlier issued Dell 5430 with a 5480.
While it made very significant impact on weight I had to carry everyday, fn Home and End keys were a literal pain in the arse.
And well, I was working in the capacity of a SME, going through virtually hundreds of Documents and knowledge articles in a week made me shed tears ke blood.
Phew! Now - A KB212 is to my rescue.

@24th-Dragon allright, I will :)

I know some who brings full-sized keyboard with them on their backpack. You can actually see it since it doesn't fit in their bag.

Then my laptop's keyboard get broken just right after we presented our final project! dang if I wasn't so lucky. After that I always bring with me my bluetooth mini keyboard. Almost same size as the apple ones.

Now, my laptop is just collecting dust on a corner. Switch to desktop since I don't need portability anymore + easy repairs and upgrades.

Ordered a notebook from internet. Arrived. It had this keyboard layout (and also very very plastic).
I sent it back for my right of withdrawal. Right refused for an invented reason. I had to get used to it

And here comes the perfection

@24th-Dragon I actually like this layout, I got used to it and really like to have pg up and down so close at my fingers.
What bothers me much more are keyboards that have page up, down, home and end as FUCKING FUNCTION KEYS. I use them because they're fast and handy and that gets completely, lost if I need to press a second key to access them.

@24th-Dragon actually i disabled the PgUp / PgDown on my xps, always tapped up+left+PgUp etc. together. for me now its working fine! :)

@24th-Dragon in case you're interested and using windows and don't want to change registry values "by hand", theres a nice tool on github: https://github.com/randyrants/...

@Trablarer ummm... Not really. Some of the latest thinkpads have arrow keys messed up just like this apple does. And that right ctrl - right fn keys layout is worse than disturbing. It's just too awkward...

Loved the older ones though

But in that position, there is a shift key in my laptop.

@netikras at least in Thinkpads the cursor (arrow) keys are shifted down a bit, so they are easy to find without looking...

@CodeMonkeyG Yes I know the home/end are available with Fn-key, but that's crap.

To select a complete line you have to Fn-home and then Fn-Shift-End, whichs needs three fingers at once. Only Ctrl-Alt-Del needed three fingers at once.

And on the other hand, PrtScr has its own key, I need that maybe every two or three days, home/end every two or three minutes.

And there is still a massive Caps Lock key, that I have deactivated. Who needs Caps Lock?

@mlask can you imagine that people pay that idiot thousands of dollars for that design? 🤦🏽‍♂️

Now, that's an example of superb marketing.

@Trablarer The cheaper Thinkpads also have that crappy keyboard design.

You have to get at least an Edge series to get a decent keyboard, but they are quite expensive.

And then the newer clickpads are not as good as the old ones. I love the one on my old E540, and I hope it won't break. We also have a new E580 here and that clickpad is much harder to press and not as sensitive as the one on the E540.

Almost the most efficient compact keyboards on a laptop for me... Except that power button, f*** that button placement.

Use external keyboard, it's a lifesaver.

It's in my laptop too

@apoorvakumar actually better than most.

@Trablarer Except for the misplaced remove insert positions and ctrl and function key switched

@ranggawiratno I use home and end much more often than page up/down so closer to the arrows would be nicer

Full-size up arrow key, or half size shift key?

@notAnkur Lenovo

@gymmerDeveloper yup

I hate it too... My other laptop has normal ones. Apparently, 14" laptops, that do not have numpad, have arrows like these to make it worse.

@BugsBuggy my 15 inch MBP 2018, an almost €4300 machine, has them too.

@ddephor Programmers need caps lock. How else would you type SOMETHING_LIKE_THIS?

@devios1 WITHOUT CAPSLOCK

@Mizz141 Not if you're typing properly you don't:

right-shift W left-shift I right-shift T left-shift H O U right-shift T C A left-shift P right-shift S left-shift L O right-shift C left-shift K

Those little arrow keys are the reason why developers have anxiety issues.

Can't complaint about some extra real-estate.

@devios1 I have two shift keys, they work really well.

I don't need caps lock that I press accidently 5 times a day and then have to clean up the uppercase mess, whereas I really need full uppercase words only once or twice a month.

So for me, caps lock is configured to be just another shift key, that's how I want it to work.

@ddephor same with me. Capslock is absolutely useless for me

@24th-Dragon 😂😂😭😭

You guys really need to learn how to type.

Don't have a picture but there is that lenovo one that switched the fn key with ctrl so that fn is the most outer left button. I hate it soooo much

@stylefish just wanted to chime in and vouch for sharpkeys. I've used it for years to remap my capslock and windows key. Excellent little simple utility that doesn't try to be more than it needs to be.

It looks like turtle face

@24th-Dragon everything about that is a giant nope

why is the my shift key hiding next to up key

The compromise xD

@ozgn That's savage