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when I was a junior no one helped me with jack shit and it actually worries me what if I'm missing basic info everyone knows but I don't
I was a junior doing senior/lead shit
then I got hired as a senior... did fuckall and got paid x3. ridiculous. got fired though. not cuz I did fuckall but cuz somebody higher up had a personality conflict with me, I guess. I didn't even say anything! just wanted to get through my day. sigh
humans suck -
how to not need help:
duplicate the problem somewhere else, Google the solution, try it in the test environment first. test knowledge of everything all the time if you have free time by editing things to figure out how they truly work instead of how people think things work. don't trust shit. get fired for being too good and having a bad attitude because you look too good and people suck. can't sabotage you into a shell of a person so fuck you -
@jestdotty I always appreciate your replies, jestdotty. Thank you.
If you miss info, you can just keep brushing up.
Yes, the junior doing senior shit sounds typical.
Politics.. just goes to show it's not always skills that propel you. -
@jestdotty
You know, that was a major problem; the problem was not replicable.. nor Googlable, and, fun as the company I worked for was: everything siloed behind bureaucracy. I couldn't do shit, so to speak. When you have such a problem, that's when it's tough. I did have a test environment.. but I couldn't even troubleshoot it because it required permissions from the lead.. which they didn't want to give.. such bureaucracy again. All I got was: "Make it work!".
Free time was another issue.. all my free time went to trying to plumb the issues. I had no time for anything else, but I agree on your point. That's what I technically got fired for, yes. I was too good, the manager didn't like it, they felt inferior, and then they decided to conspire against me. If only I were joking. They confirmed it. Sick fucks. And then personally offended me. Incredible. Glad I'm out of there. -
Junior/Medior/Senior is a function or experience, attitude, apparence and performance.
Im not sure what the function looks like exactly, but you can identify anyone as any of those based on those 4 attributes.
Someone can actually have the years to X someone can actually have the mindset of X
Someone can act as if they know X
Someone can show the actual results for X
Companies boil it down as years of experience because It's the simplest to quantify and there is some* correlation. But as a dev looking for work you also apply to the levels where you feel comfortable in (usually the level is mentioned in the posting) so you also grade yourself to an extent... Lastly the interview processe will do some basic screening, but not everyone will tell you if you're over-qualified so It's a bit unfair.
That's where the system mostly reached equilibrium because there's no much more you can do without probing human brains. -
@jestdotty Yes, they were all frat bro and party after work and I was more serious and mind my own business. That's also why I was let go at another place. Heck, at any place.
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It's simple.
Junior - someone who shows potential but needs a lot of supervision, mentoring
mid - someone who can do most of his stuff on his own, can mentor juniors, can find assistance he needs w/o a single PoC [mentor]
sr - someone who can build the whole thing ground-up, participates in hiring, leads tech interviews challenging candidates with his skill and knowledge [depth and breadth], leads teams, organized work in the team[s] to get shit done. Ensures means for the teams to learn and grow. Evaluates peers' seniority level and levelup initiatives.
Principal - all of the above + communicates with the client, participates in sales, consulting, translates business needs into work units [epics, stories, tasks], manages risks and expectations, justifies decisions to the client using business language. Works on sales pitches.
Defines new roles/sr levels, roadmaps to achieve them. -
@netikras 's definitions are very professional and SFW enough to be posted on LinkedIn.
My abridged version:
Junior: younger dev who gets assigned to some tasks in that messing up is not that much of a problem, and is still getting the hang of the business
Mid: After a while, a junior finds out they're too good for this crap and asks for real consequential tasks. Either the team assigns the real tasks, and the junior gets promoted, or the junior GTFOs to another company as a mid. Now that I think of it, wimpy juniors may have the skills of a senior, but if they're not willing to fight for it, they remain as juniors.
Senior: Same as a mid - or highly skilled junior, but is one that all other seniors have quit on them. So they may handle the shit themselves and get recognized as seniors, remain mids, or quit to a senior role. Solo devs are de-facto seniors, but it is meaningless if there is no one else.
Principal: bloody suits that can't tell a calculator from an elevator button pad -
@JsonBoa well you don't become a principal for nothing :) principal is not mgmt. It's highly tech just with additional layer of business language and owning your and seniors' shit
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@jestdotty Money money money mooooneyyy, moooney! 70's tune. ♫
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@BordedDev Yes, I tend to ask the latter. I also worked all on my own (because management asked it of me, but that's toxic).
You are considered a junior developer when you need 'a lot of hand-holding'. Now, I can figure out most things on my own, but how do you distinguish between 'needs too much hand-holding and therefore is a junior' and 'does ok and therefore is a medior'?
For example, I can do well on basic things and getting projects set up, but then I might need more help if errors truly become too cryptic or difficult to solve and I haven't found solutions. A few examples here:
- having messed up the git branches and releases so much that you need someone with a deep knowledge and troubleshooting of git to set the situation straight
- spending a week on trying to figure out why Azure doesn't want to successfully build your super custom build and it takes ages to figure it out because it requires in-depth Docker, linux knowledge and stellar, MIT-level troubleshooting and analytical skills
And so, someone who needs help with these is considered a junior?
How do you really identify a junior? Seems vague.
question
proficiency
junior-vs-medior
job-hunting