:v

How about juniors that can't do an "apt/yum/dnf install" but call themselves full stack devs and have the worst attitude when you try to teach them?

@hell basically if Google provides the anwser to the question asked than its a question that should not have been asked.

@wiwe2210 In many cases asking questions and getting into a real talk about something unclear is much more efficient and teaching.

@Yamakuzure as long as it doesn't take up too much time, yes it is efficient, and in many cases even beneficial for extra information but only for the junior... You also have to count the time from the medior/senior that has to help him/her

@hell
But I do agree with the whole attitude thing... But only if the sum of time spend + getting back into the code for both programmers is less than the time was needed for a Google/whatever search 😉

@incognito You are right of course.

Fortunately I have been very lucky with my juniors and student assistants. 😊
They all have StackExchange accounts. 😁

@incognito this time wasted vs. gained metric you're judging by is impossible to measure, so all that matters is the fact that the junior dev will not really learn why things work (most of the time) if they copy from the internet. They will continue wasting their time, not learning, and making bad code until either their project is bad or they get fired.
Meanwhile, the senior dev will not get fired for spending time teaching the junior dev. Seeing teaching as wasting time is the completely wrong attitude

I was sitting on public transport, so I was a bit brief. This is, however, an important matter, so I'd like to stress this a bit.

I generally agree with @incognito that the time spend must be taken into account. If said junior doesn't understand something, because they lack essential basic knowledge, I'd make them read up on that part on their own, first.

And @hell has a good point here. I *once* had to witness a junior, who strolled around like he was owning the place, playing lead dev. Although the company has no lead devs. He was absolutely immune to hints and advices, but meant it would be a good idea to copy and paste a command in VB ten times with its parameter screaming "LOOP ME!" at him. While he was a savant in project management, that wasn't what he was hired for. Programming skill? Zero. Eventually he got fired for it.

@svgPhoenix I would extent this, a good talk can also benefit the senior, maybe they haven't seen that exact problem before. That's also worth a lot!

@svgPhoenix I think you've missed my point by judging by time "wasted" (I btw never said wasted 😉)

Time spend learning is never time wasted, what however is a waste of time is the time it takes for some one to get back into their code/thought process.

So if a junior (for example) asks 1 big and/or important question, it's fine

But if someone asks 10 rather simple/easily searchable questions, it's 10 times more time wasted while they would get the same answer by looking it up (it may cost them 5 more minutes or so… but it saves some one else his/her time)

@incognito totally agree.

P.s.
"was needed" = "wasted"
thx brain

I agree with the general message put forth by the person @kaizen quoted in the op.

Junior devs (often even normal devs that are just new) need guidance and mentorship.

That's not true in all environments, but in most I've worked in.

If you leave people to fend for themselves, they usually WILL find solutions (eventually), but these are not neccessarily the solutions you want them to use - especially if you are dealing with an established application where certain practices have been agreed upon.

@mksana not only that, but seniors will complain the junior Dev is not working as they need to. That juniors devs are not respecting all the information they haven't learned and they will ended up getting fired.

I'm on my first job and I've been working here for 3/4 years, part time.

What have I missed as a junior developer? I would have liked someone to tell me: if you can't figure out something in X time ask someone. I didn't have a metric for this and I'm sure sometimes I've wasted time, I've learned yes but for the company it would have been better if I asked for help sooner.

We should also remember that not every dev is a good teacher, while everyone at my company is super patient and helpful not all of my colleagues are the best teachers.

@altariel that is way too true.

Said no company ever!