only elon musk is smart enough to realize there are smart people out there who can get shit done without a goddamn fcking degree

Actually my company does pretty much the same. But my boss is a self-taught programmer himself.

@kolaente that is very contradicting

@-ANGRY-CLIENT- why? My boss knows from expirence of what programmers without a degree are capable of, so he won't require new hires to have a degree.

The important part isn't "without a degree" though. It's "getting shit done", and not just some stupid shit, but real shit.

@kolaente oh, I was thinking that he did the exact opposite of it haha. My bad.

I have only encountered one company out of the hundreds of positions I've applied for, that genuinely required a four-year degree. I would call TBC's requirement pretty much the industry standard.

@bahua yeah “degree in X or 4+ years related work experience” seems to be the norm in Midwest US — can’t speak for elsewhere

Actually I don't have a degree and never had trouble landing a job.

@Taqriaqsuk absolute mad lad ! 👏👏👏

Yeah not the only one.
I had an interview with Bloomberg (amazingly underrated company) and asked the recruiter if he thought it would help if I did a master's at Imperial College of London.

He basically told me he didn't give a shit, he just wants smart people who can code.
That was fun.

Yes but look what it says: 4 years of experience in software engineering. Engineering is quite a different ball game than just programming or developing. Looking at my own education (and yes I have a degree) I can honestly say that engineering software requires you to be able to do almost everything related to the engineering of software: from initial analysis to defining requirements, to defining the software architecture, creating functional and technical designs, to implementing the design in such a way that conforms to certain quality standards, including back end, front end, services, api's, databases and much much more. Of course one can gain all this knowledge by him/herself but I'm yet to meet the first self taught or college/university drop out software engineer truly mastering these engineering skills.

Its all about discipline. Fresh grad will always have higher priority compared to a self taught who doesnt even have one reference. Almost anyone can google and glue together some shit. But being disciplined, playing good in a team as well as being capable of working alone, this is another thing entirely.

@CodeMasterAlex based on this requirement, it feels like asking an intermediate level programmer to do beginner level work.

@CodeMasterAlex not only that, but how to acquire this experience in the first place? Not at this company, that's for sure, and just hacking together some shit and putting it on Github won't do, either.

It's for bright people who cannot afford formal studies because of mostly financial reasons, not for people who aren't smart enough to study in the first place.

@zemaitis

I think it would be very difficult for someone with no professional experience to get hired, degree or not. You have to prove your worth with shitwork for a while, to build up experience.

Re-read the ad please,

"If you dont have engineering degree, you need an equivalent of 4 years working professional engineering" - it said.

An engineering degree still, pretty well respected.

@Fast-Nop getting the required experience is indeed hard. I also worked for companies that say: we like people who love coding, if you can code, you can work for us. And in fact they'd give you an assignment to complete. In the interview they go through your solution to discuss whatever choices you made. That will definitely show those that are passionate and capable! If you have the right experience, intrinsic passion and mindset you'll be just as good as that degree holding engineer, maybe even better! I only think that a degree helps if you are truly passionate about what you're doing, not if you got that degree to get a decent paying job because then you'll never reach that started-out-as-whizz-kid-hardcore-developer level.

@Fast-Nop stupid shit like digging and selling flamethrowers... Yeah don't need a degree for that. A wise decision.

(Though I'd hire people with degrees to do stuff like this and vice versa to get shit done)

you do realize that about 90% of musks inventions are snakeoil merchandise?

+ asking for 4 years of exp id exactly the problem of people without a degree

Elon is too smart. He knows that you can't get 4 years of experience without a degree because other companies won't hire you without a degree or require you to have 3-4 years of experience, bringing us to same problem. Well played!

@CoolSonu39 you can get that experience by having a cool side project as entry ticket into a small company. Of course, the pay will not be high, but unlike a student, you'll be paid at all.

@CoolSonu39 I work for JP Morgan without a degree as a developer 🤔

This is more or less the standard nowadays unless you work in a sweatshop