Real conversation:

dev 1: so what are you working on these days?

dev 2: some wordpress project.

dev1: hahaha. wordpress is shit. are you a real developer?

dev 2: have you ever used wordpress?

dev1: no.

dev2: okay.

the dev community loooooves to circlejerk.

well, if you can actually do anything with wordpress fucked up docs (unless they fixed it last 2 years) that actually properly wroks, you're a dev.

But still wordpress deserves magma hot hate.

Dev 1: what are you eating?
Dev 2: horse shit.
Dev 1: this sucks.
Dev 2: have you ever eaten horse shit?
Dev 1: no.
Dev 2: okay.

@Fast-Nop horse shit is pretty healthy. Have you ever tried it?

dev 1: so what are you working on these days?
dev 2: some wordpress project.
dev1: hahaha. wordpress is shit. are you a real developer?
dev 2: have you ever used wordpress?
dev1: Yes and i still want to burn it with fire 5+ years later.
dev2: oh.....

@C0D4 but whyyyy?

I work with WordPress on a daily basis, have been working with it for the past 3 years or so.

WP's codebase isn't a well thought out structure that follows well defined standards with an easy API to work with.
it's a bunch of slow spaghetti code, which is mostly is over a decade old and follows the same old (bad) practices. Every time I work with the database in WP I lose a little bit of will to live.
For some reason WP doesn't follow PSR but their own coding standards, which in my opinion is just terrible. who programs like this?!
I also hate how WP still doesn't use any templating engine, PHP+HTML tends to be hella unreadable.
Plus the templating system they follow is so confusing (see attached image).

WordPress is good for business, because it's easy to set up and most things are available through plugins and themes. It's cheap for your boss but not cheap for you because you'll require a lot of therapy to not end your own life.

I've also worked with Laravel and Symfony at school, but have kept working with WordPress because of work.

If anyone needs to work with WordPress, I recommend Themosis.
https://framework.themosis.com/
It's basically Laravel + WordPress. And makes adding your own code a much better experience.

Just PHP things

@Kage Think is you have total freedom to use whatever fuck you want in the template or plugin. If you want to use any template engine or react or angular or whatever you can use it. It's easy to blame wordpress than trying out of the box. Now . they also have nice rest api. So you don't need to touch theme.

@erandria the nix fanboys are the worst of them all lol

@Fast-Nop lmao. Couldn't be better said. 🤣🤣🤣

@Fast-Nop hey! don't knock it till you try it!

Sooooo tired of all the hate on WordPress, which runs, like, 35% of websites now and basically is my bread-and-butter as far as consulting. Make something better that is just as successful, or more successful, and then you have the right to hate on it. No FOSS software is perfect. It's only as good as the individuals in the communities that lead, write, and support it.

@stackodev

Honestly, for fun we could gather and rewrite wordpress.

Sure we could.

But. You have so much time?
Do I have so much time? If I get few years sentence and manage to get my PC there, sure, rest assured I will rewrite wordpress. and joomla too.

but now, it is what it is. Wordpress won so much of market becouse its easy to use as USER not as DEV. That's difference. 30% of sites, most of them small companies that have less than 20 people and personal blogs. You think you will find many programmers within that community? You will find... some. But there is no reason to make wordpress good. it's there. so it's good enough for 90% of users. some will complain becouse others complain, some like me will complain becouse they have a reason, but only few of these will give enough fucks to actually do something about it. Becouse there are alternatives for writing a PHP code. But most of people that struggle with e-mail will also struggle with setting it up.

But.
Wordpress really is shit.

@DubbaThony Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not, but I agree that it's not a simple matter to just "do better than WordPress". And yet I hear all the time that "I could do it better", and nobody does. So, until then, we continue to meet the business goals of non-technical users by presenting them with easy-to-use (yet inelegant) solutions to their problems so they can be profitable.

@stackodev

heh, mate, unfortunately humans arent as simple as code...

So you are unsure if I agree or not (boolean)

Problem is... it depends on which line. I neither agree or not.

I think we should continue our hate towards Wordpress becouse saying its not elegant is gross understatement.

But I dont say "do it better yourself" and Im not going to unless you start bitchfest for wtf reasons.

I say basically that wordpress sucks, and thats part of where I dont agree with you defending wordpress, BUT making it not sucking is pointless for pretty much all of us given effort - to - gain ratio. So... I am able to understand both parties, and I agree partially on both sides.

TL;DR
Wordpress sucks but from buissness perspective its too pointless to change it, so let it be just bad. So I agree partially.

@EDWCode

Gasoline? right now my car is has few liters left so nope for me. But I wanna see shit burn. ping me when you will cast fire and I will grab popcorn ;)

In all seriousness, There is polish SaS called Szoper (yes, using Z not H cuz reasons...)
(https://www.shoper.pl/en/). If you want to see REAL broken garbage where tech support (actual programer at one point) failed to help us with their crashes... After few hours I managed to fix the crashing point of their code (which was gracefully overwritten by update)... yeeah. that's your go-to.

We are right now switching to prestashop and oh boi, people in our company working on it call it sooo awesome. Something that works, and something that dosent cause them to ask me (another department lol) how to fix szoper every like... 2-3 days.

Ive seen workarounds in it. Just Beautyfull.. Majestatic... Can we purge it already?

EDIT:
apparently they fixed that typpo in their name. It was hillarious anyway when it was a thing.

@EDWCode

Well, with SaaS I mentioned before we had situations when it just literally died without apparent reason.

Just boom, dead. Crashed. No updates, no changes in templates. Just... RIP. And furious client calling, you get the chain. With presta you can take backup before critical operation, put site down with maintainence or something like that and everyone is happy. Or at least... happier than if it just dies one night just becouse it feels like doing so...

@funnyfunfuck it's a half assed attempt at a blog system that's been brutally fucked in the ass over the years to be used for CRM, ERP and E-commerce systems. There's nothing about it that makes sense.

- The syntax does not follow PSR they just made their own thing up in the name of "we don't care for standards"

- The database structure is still a warped mess of poor content relations.

- The plugins are just a plague of disaster, anyone can write Template injecting bullshit and sell it for a dime, then you have the issue of random chunks of code being thrown into a pre-existing template, and plugins becoming perfect targets for attack.

- if you use it as a blog, so be it. When it's brutally converted into something it's not built for, or designed to handle architecturally, you end up with a clusterfuck of a mess.

- the updates don't check for compatibility with existing code and just break things left right and center and leave you to deal with the mess while plugin devs fix it abandon their work.

- shall I go on?

I am a developer.
I do some wordpress in my free time (related to some voluntary work for a non profit).
I can confirm wordpress sucks.
Wouldn't do it as my job or hobby even if it paid well.

Installing a theme and free Plugins is not development, just a heads-up if you ever have to work on real project's 😘🤪

@geryy :D True. Most of devs try it for 2 weeks and complain.

Client: Here’s money to eat and pay rent. Please build me a WordPress site.

Dev: No. I don’t like to eat and homelessness is underrated. Besides, I have my reputation to consider.

@stackodev it simply ignores the tools people have made to make working with WordPress better.