Anyone else flipping tired of hearing: we need more this, more that, more blacks, more women, more whatever, in tech?

We don’t fucking need more anyone in anything.

We just need sane, talented and hard working people to get the job done well. And do that with courtesy to all person.

There are so many unfortunate folks who want to be or could be in tech, but can't/aren't. It's not really about forced representation but about equal opportunity. Yes the discourse could be a bit better but eh, at least it's being talked about.

@RememberMe Equal opportunity? Sure. And throw competency out the window trying to give "equal opportunity" ?

My point is competency first.

The criteria for any role should be simple: Who can get the job done to the highest quality?

If a toad could do it best then you best hire that toad

@RememberMe equal opportunity for equal skills... sure, why not. Filling quotas? Hell no.

@Zer0day @WeAreMany like I said, the discourse isn't the best. It's a complex issue that everyone's still struggling to figure out and will continue to struggle, because the problems are very very real.

I like the increased attention all this is getting, tbh. I also notice that at least in my experience, companies tend to hire with soft quotas or with preference at lower levels, but climbing up the ladder has increasing merit components to it (not saying it's completely unaffected, but the higer you go the lesser the effect on average). Especially when bigger and bigger money is involved, you can't afford put your faith in someone who can't handle it. But when you can sort of afford to do so...yeah I can totally see why folks would go for it. Plus they get to proclaim loudly that they're inclusive, which is good PR and also creates virtuous cycles (good things for wrong reasons etc.). Better than no mention of this anywhere anyway.

Is tolerating the occasionally meh "preferential" hire really such a big deal? Plenty of people get into jobs they don't belong already, through nepotism, plain good luck, fast talk skills etc.

@RememberMe @Zer0day exactly.

While I agree it's not great to think in terms of quotas and demographics over talent, I find that the most frequent mention of EEO in this context comes from vitriol against it by white males.

@RememberMe @bahua https://iwf.org/2020/03/...

https://thefederalist.com/2018/04/...

https://latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/...

Tl;Dr: there's tons of evidence, including claims from members of groups those quotas are supposed to help, that quotas actually had a negative impact on their career success.

@hitko
1. Not the kind of thing I'm talking about
2. I'd like to see a proper study

I don't mean stuff like make 40% of your company women by law at the highest levels, but stuff that deliberately gives a wider range of newcomers a chance and older professionals some staying power.

And my point is that counting beans is a fool's errand, in the face of widespread incompetence by currently entitled groups. If the same negligent managerial deference is artificially extended to statistically disadvantaged groups, I'm not seeing the problem.

If you code well, you can be a jerk, I don't give a fuck. Place of courtesy is in a bedroom. Of someone else.

You can’t be racist or bigoted if you think all people are dumb fucks equally.