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So I can only speak from my experience with interns from US educational systems.
I agree, people should be nice.
But as far as 'slavery' and compensation goes ... I would be VERY WARY if I were an intern demanding to be paid what they're worth to the company....
I worked with interns at another company and nobody brought interns on because they were productive / got more done with interns, the company did it to be part of the community and etc.
In every case I could have done my job and the interns in half the time if I wasn't dealing with the interns... none was ever around long enough to actually do work that the company would profit from (that couldn't be faster / better by others).
I certainly worked with interns who felt that they were underpaid, that was never the case. I don't doubt there are some gifted folks who maybe could be super productive interns, but I think those are very rare / never met one... -
Train someone and being nice are two separate things.
Military training isn’t nice and they are able to produce constant good soldiers for centuries.
If we want software soldiers we should stop being nice or it will stay as it is cause morons won’t learn just by saying 100th times to do it other way.
I can repeat myself at most 3 times.
3rd time I’m already pissed cause I see I waste my time. -
@vane totally agree, I went even further, I had patience and invested more time than needed to teach the intern basic of basics, but when intern just don't give a fuck, what can you do.
You can be nice and waste your time, that's what I did. I did not choose interns, I just got one to mentor. Would like to not to do it again if intern has a dickhead-zero-fucks-given attitude. -
@iiii honestly bud that seems like a case by case sort of personal problem.
I go by the idea that if you understand something well enough you can learn the necessary communication skills to teach it.
Funny enough, my best teachers were amazing engineers, the worst ones were shit academic only type. -
@N00bPancakes I see your point, but what about other trades etc that make money of the bat? vehicle technicians in my city BANK it man, amd they get paid from day 1, so do a lot of more people in many institutions, for different jobs, why have we established that the only people that need to prove themselves are in software?
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Lol that reminds me in one of the previous company I worked at, some entitled senior with a terrible attitude asked for interns.
Anyways the day the interns arrived, they had no computer and no resources to start working. When they asked the senior for help, he told them they had to phone him for questions during specific work hours (like between 1PM and 3PM) and he would not even answer half the time. The interns would of course not learn anything, poors dudes.
Of course some non-shitty engineers came to the rescue and took them under their wings after a month of bullshit.
I don't know as of this day why they still employ this guy. For fuck sake, he works on a Windows XP PC, refuse to work with others, does not test his code, which breaks, does 3k LoC commits and pull requests and does not document anything. If you ask him for help or doc on some design he made to understand it better, he will tell you you suck and to go away. -
@AleCx04 but what choice you have when hiring or firing is mostly by HR ?
When HR people will say to you keep him, give him a chance, he’s cool guy.
The system is broken. -
@AleCx04 exactly, you have to learn a teaching skill in addition to your main skill. Just having the main skill is not enough to teach it.
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@iiii its obvious. My position is that it is doable and not hard, at least not for me. To each their own tho.
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@AleCx04
I mean other trades you very much make not much money to start ... and vehicle repair, I assume you can do the job to some extent on your own once you start.
I really don't think software is much of an outlier. -
@N00bPancakes starting salary for a vehicle tech where I am at is 40k a year, for a dev is 38k. I thus disagree, but see your point.
Related Rants
Windows. 😂😂
Someone with a life here?.. Like seriously?.🤔🤔
Internships are fucking bullshit and if more senior developers were to take the role of an actual mentor to coach juniors properly then the state of software engineering would be better.
Some people can be let down easy in terms of "this is not for you bruh", others can be built. I know that social interactions are not common for a lot of the morons in here, but being polite and kind is relatively simple if you know what you are doing. Being a dickhead != "royal levels of expertise" and if we were to coach more people into proper development practices then software would not be in such a shitty state.
For an environment that thrives in cooperation I find it hard to believe that we are still subjecting new people to the field to what can be considered slavery with little to actual no monetary compensation.
I removed many of the requirements for the application to a software developer job where I am at (I am the boss, I get to do shit like that) and my fight with HR was "I would rather someone fresh from college that I can coach properly than some dickhead with years on the field that won't listen to anything else than their own words"
Sure it would be slow, sure it would be hard, nothing ever is that simple, but my idea is "train this mkfer, level the fuck out of him, let him be off to great shit rather than giving him to some dickhead that will treat him like shit on account of being a newbie"
And yes, I do know how and what can go bad, I am going to have someone desinging shit in basic html/js/css with some php here and there not giving them the keys to every server I control. Thank you for your fucking concerns, I know what I am doing.
the experiment fails? GOOD more data for me.
Plus, you learn more when you teach others.
random
be kind to others
fu
eat dick
get morras
internships are bullshit