All the C# developers will get this. I’m a C# developer myself. When I go on GitHub, all of the c# GitHub wikis, comments, and issues are very professionally written, even the amateur comments are worded like a stackoverflow question. It’s great.

I stumbled across a popular JS GitHub repo (https://github.com/tessalt/...) and reading the comments made me so happy to be a developer of enterprise level languages with structure, patterns and conformity.

Sure JS has all these things, but JS also has a boatload of “self taught” (I’m self taught too) developers with no patterns, no sense of scalability, or systems integrations, or sense of how to write meaningful comments and discussions

"Enterprise" lol
https://youtu.be/FyCYva9DhsI

Also, as a C++ dev, my language is better than yours. But anyway.

Anyway, a lot of people on stack overflow are really off-putting to newcomers. If nobody can ask for help, nobody's going to learn your language. So it's probably dying out these days.

@atheist c++ is not better than c#
its for different things :P

honestly depends from my position in the case of github whats the format ? the initial bitchy dev discussion or the polished explanation ?

I tried to explain to one such developer that a piece of code wasn't at all doing what it should be doing if he'd read the .net docs I cited and he blew me off until I had a minor explosion and cited his community standards lol

@AvatarOfKaine just be smart about it. Use well formatted sentences, put the “who” “what” and “why”. Be verbose so that people can understand your issue or why why a new framework should be implemented. Don’t just say “use react because it’s cool”

@atheist I agree stack overflow questions and the people are harsh. But the questions are well formatted, show the why, show the “I tried XYZ”. The JavaScript GitHub issues I speak of are “we should upgrade to react because it’s cool”.

I’m experienced dev and I’m afraid to post on stack overflow haha, but I’m active on GitHub and know the different between valuable input and not valuable input to a discussion. That’s all I’m saying

@AvatarOfKaine You miss my point. His comment is condescending to JS devs. And anything you can do with c++, you can do with c#, and vice versa.

@atheist well... yeah you can use marshal for pointers I suppose

i dunno if you can do everything with c# you can do with c++.

and then there is GC that bogs some things down
and the string type is immutable

and c# has really really nice delegate types and events.

@champion01 you mean the... *English*site, stack overflow? Or the *English* issue pages? The people posting don't always have perfect English? Such a surprise. Almost as if English might not be their first language or something.

@atheist c++ is great, my point of being condescending is that:

1.) take all of the discussion input and questions from various repos and discussions from C++.

2.) now take all of the various discussion input and questions from various repos and discussions in JS.

JS inherently attracts more “script kiddies” and people who do it for the lolz, or “just for fun”. So the quality of input and discussion is much lower than that of a professional language such as C++

@AvatarOfKaine c# and c++ are just different ways of expressing the same concepts. They both compile to Web assembly, they both do the same fundamental thing.

@atheist no no not quality of their grammar, but the quality of thier Input.

• Do they share examples of what they tried?

• do they share the “why” we should upgrade to this new thing or “why” we should do this feature

• do they organize their code appropriately.

It has nothing to do with *english* and everything to do with the details surrounding the code they are discussing

@champion01 "JS is more likely to be used by people with less experience, almost as if absolutely everyone has the language runtime in their pocket". I mean, so? That doesn't make you better. You laughing at them makes you worse.

Anyway, I'm probably being a bit of a stubborn asshole. It's been a long week.

@atheist no I’m not laughing at lack of understanding. We all were new at some point. I’m laughing at their lack of quality of engagement.

Don’t say “it doesn’t work”.

Say: “it doesn’t work when I do XYZ, I receive this error and I should be expecting AAA”

That’s what I mean.

I get you. But asking for help is a skill. I've run an intern program, you have no idea how many times I've asked them if they've Googled their problem and been told no. But they're there to learn. I'm there to help. There will always be that person that just needs help and doesn't know what to ask, because they're overwhelmed. I've seen a few questions on here that people ask because if they post them on stack overflow, they'd get dumped on. Let's not turn this site into the same elitist mantra as them.

My point is, if everyone is learning JS, and only the old guard know c#, there's nothing to really differentiate c# from Java's run anywhere JRE, or c++'s compiled speed. If nobody is learning it, it's because it's unfriendly technology without significant advantage. Rant about that.

@atheist you are right. My point in posting the rant is how thankful I am for the c# community

@atheist i wouldn't say js is a great tech for friendly. its weird async and entirely event driven spaghetti code is pretty crappy in my opinion.

@AvatarOfKaine I agree with you. The spaghetti code is why I hate Js so much. It’s bonkers that there are also 100 different tools with 100 different ways of doing things.

A JS developer can work at 3 different companies on a CRUD app, each company will use a massively different set of tools, code structure, and ultimately it’s hard to “jump in” from a tooling perspective alone. Then you have the spaghetti code. Ugh.

Sure there is clean JS code, I’m generalizing of course. But many people have this opinion for a reason…

😂 unlike c#, any js libraries without update in the last year are considered dead. Nice pick 👍

@atheist what are you protecting? Script kiddies which are totally ruining the internet with bloated shit?

C# encourages clean, structured code, and rewards it right away. JS encourages the opposite and doesn't punish it until that code is a brick too low in the Jenga pile to safely remove.

I like working with both for these reasons.

Variety is the spice and that.

@h3rp1d3v so true! I routinely find amazing libraries that are 3-6 years old on GitHub. They work like a charm because they are .netstandard2.0

I also found this great library called SmartPath which was for net framework 4, I upgraded it to .net standard in 1.5 hours and works just fine :)

@MM83 lol you dance with the devil working with JS like that.

Yet this rant have no meaningful except just your egontrepised shit

@MM83 I see, so you are an occasional masochist 🤔

problem with .net used to be performance and memory usage however.

unless there was something I was missing.

@AvatarOfKaine I think your described "weirdness" is one dimension of friendliness. That said, I would argue that its event driven nature, at least in the browser when considering HTML/CSS/JS as one "language", is an advantage. What other language can you write 5 lines of code to create a button that calls a function on click? There plain isn't one.

@iiii I mean, I'm advocating against dumping on potential future members of our industry.

Let's face it, most of us are upper middle class white dudes with some university education in the mix. Attitudes that involve looking down on people without that background will keep it as such.

If you don't like the messenger, IDGAF. If you don't like the message, I'd rather you GTFO of the industry.

@atheist interesting. i was lower to middle middle class without a degree while learning and working :P how do you become upper middle class in this industry ? :P

most of the people i've met that claim that status aren't actually much better off because most of their extra money is eaten up by increased living expenses.

at 60k a year I had some damn options though.

@AvatarOfKaine more meaning "upper middle class background", which is basically a prerequisite. I'm a weird blend of stuff. Kinda grew up lower middle as my parents (no degrees, got partially disowned by family so no money there either) went from working on busses for several years to a software engineer and teacher, becoming "sorta middle/upper middle class", but hating people's views. And having ADHD which classes me as disabled, I've literally been told learning difficulties are made up excuses for stupid people (by someone that couldn't do my job). People do this stuff without thinking about it. Some days I let it slide. Some days I tell people to shove their head up their ass.

@atheist thats an interesting hodge podge of facts.

so you have the money to travel freely. where are all the monsters not at the moment ?

I just had to be reminded that if my government is not hollow i'm having difficulty reaching it

@AvatarOfKaine I literally had to quote disability law to my employer last week, so if you have any suggestions as to where I should move, I'm listening.

@atheist actually I would rather see those people without any relevant education and/or experience GTFO from professional industry. It's fine for a hobby, but not for a full time job.

@iiii So... How do they go *from* having no education or relevant experience *to* the point where they have education or professional experience?

Without posting questions on the internet?

@atheist no one is dumping. I’m saying don’t say “it doesn’t work”. Instead say “it doesn’t work when I do XYZ, I expect a result of AAA and instead see an error message of BBB.

@iiii yaaas Queen 🙌

@atheist by having education, training or enough hobbyist experience. It's not like you should come to a pretty high skill job being a damn blank slate.

@iiii but you've got to build the skills *somehow*, not everyone can go to uni. Otherwise, where should you go to ask for help? Worse, what about those that, say, have a physics degree? So, they've got the education.

@champion01 I get you. I think I'm more used to inexperienced people, and think a lot of sites are hostile to them, and think they shouldn't be. There's always someone that's gonna be like "I'm following this thing and it doesn't work", and the answer is some environnement thing.

@atheist have I mentioned *relevant* education and/or experience, no?