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One question. Do you have kids?
If kids are loud and noisy, it doesn’t mean they’re not well behaved. You can’t expect them to stay put and to shut up all day just because you need to concentrate. There are however many parents who just gave in to putting their kids in front of the TV all day.
Also, who in the world is talking about actual human “touch”? Sure sexual harassment is a crime but you’re making it sound like people who want to go to the office are sexual perverts.
Another point, moving to a new place is not easy (unless you’re single and living an a rental).
I mean all in all, I agree that WFH is a good thing for IT workers but some of the arguments you’re putting forward are a bit extreme and if you were to empathize a bit more with people you may realize that their struggles are genuine and that WFH may not be the ultimate solution for everyone. -
"If you can't teach your children to behave, who will?"
There's not a single child on the planet who'd never disturb you once in a while, however well behaved. It's just what kids do.
"if you can go to the office, you can look for another place to live"
Sounds great! You paying for my new house?
"If you want to have personal conversations, do it *out of working hours* with consenting adults."
Geez, so I'm not allowed to form healthy professional relationships with the people I work alongside now? Come on.
Thing is, I much prefer WFH too. But it's not for everyone, there's no reason to punish people who genuinely want to come into the office, and most of your arguments against it really don't make much sense. -
Some managers belive that you need to see the team working in order to "know" they are.
WFH gets you more hoirs of work, bc the commute is gone. Company can reduce office space and save a lot of money. You get happier devs, that are not distracted when working.
Also - those who prefer to work in the office for any reason, can just go work in the office, and NOT talk about it all the time... -
@black-kite, I have three. The pandemic has been hell for them, and for me by far the worst thing has been what it have made them feel. And I lost older relatives, plural.
My kids will take a LONG time to recover. They will interrupt me, and they will do it often and I will love them for it. They will need to know that we are here, and are not going anywhere. They must be aware of that.
Sometimes, I will take a while to respond, like, 30s to a couple minutes. They know better than to scream unstoppably or break stuff for my immediate attention.
And I don't think leaving them at home with a nanny because "I need to work" passes the right message, or even is very helpful for them for a time after the pandemic. In a few years, of course, they will have to make enough emotional space. -
Tbh I’d love wfh to become a standard as much as I wish not having to show yourself on video would become a standard… for all my fellas experiencing disphoria out there!
May sound silly or that it’s a bit of a long shot, but I assure you that, since i hate my body for other reasons, some days it’s hard af to have to show up! -
well, you are missing a lot of points here.
I do however not intend to correct this, as the other posts already do that.
My 2 cents:
in my opinion people should be able to decide for themself if they work in office or at home. for this it is required that the company has the right set of tools and processes to
A: ensure that employees can work together independent from where they are
B: ensure that work gets done -
@AlmondSauce , that is what I wanted to read. Thank you, instead of stereotypical ad-hominen attacks you present counter arguments and suggest that mine are imprecise.
Well, for the comment about kids, See my previous reply.
For the comment about your house, is your company *not* paying for yours? Mine co-signed my lease and gave half the down payment as a bonus. It is most certainly not the reality for 99% of the workers around, but my rant is specifically limited to software developers, and we are on a seller's market.
For the comment about healthy professional relationships, It might be a cultural thing. I think that when we are working, we want to work. If you have work-related complaints and discussions, go on. If those are out of work scope, still valid, just wait until the next break.
If my arguments do not make much sense, why, exactly? I'm really curious about the arguments *for* working from the office. All I hear are arguments *against* WFH. Does "WFO" has no "Pro" column? -
@JsonBoa
"My kids [...] will interrupt me, and they will do it often and I will love them for it. Sometimes, I will take a while to respond, like, 30s to a couple minutes."
Sure, but for some people that constant interruption is a *real* barrier to getting in the zone, and thus getting work done. If it doesn't bother you then great - but it's wrong to suggest it's not the same for everyone.
"For the comment about your house, is your company *not* paying for yours?"
No, they're not (aside from indirectly, through salary.) That's quite unusual in the UK in my experience - moreso if you need a bigger house to avoid distractions because you have a bigger family. Salary isn't based on family size!
"For the comment about healthy professional relationships, It might be a cultural thing."
Precisely. It varies with culture and personality. *You* may not like those relationships & conversations, but that doesn't mean others don't value them. -
"If my arguments do not make much sense, why, exactly?"
For the reasons I stated - there are exceptions to your points, for people that do really value face to face time in the office, for people who do struggle to work from home because of family life / difficulties, for people who enjoy the commute in, for people who prefer separating their home life from their working life.
I'm with you in the sense that I *much* prefer remote working and I wouldn't go back to the office - but taking this to the absolute and saying there's absolutely zero reasons that any dev would ever want to go back to the office is way too absolute.
This is a view from a rooftop in NYC that I sometimes get the pleasure to work from. I really like the view an...
Here's another view that I had where I thought coding outdoors with nature was pretty rad...
When I was traveling on the road and playing around with some code...
Remote work (for the software industry, at least) is PERFECT and I still haven't heard a single argument against it that could not be derived into one of the following explanations:
- the complainer is/has a terrible manager
- the complainer has a shitty house
- the complainer has a shitty family
- the complainer is a shitty person
Naturally I mean only real-adult healthy people who work in the software industry.
I will now list the complaints I have heard more often. All fit neatly in the categories above:
- "my family interrupts me a lot, require lots of attention and/or creates an environment I cannot work in" - in this case it is very irresponsible of the complainer to try and escape to an office. If the adults you live with cannot get by without you, how going to an office will help them? If you can't teach your children to behave, who will?
- "my house is noisy and/or uncomfortable" - move out! if you can go to the office, you can look for another place to live.
- "I need in person conversations to understand people / zoom meetings are a waste of time" - why? do you need the smell of other people to properly organize your thoughts? Yes, meetings are extra-shitty during the pandemic. But pandemics come and go and your terrible time management skills won't simply improve themselves. Learn to lead better meetings instead of blaming the medium.
- "I miss face-to-face interactions at work" - Those do not miss you. If you want to have personal conversations, do it *out of working hours* with consenting adults. If you want to have personal touch in work contexts, it is called "sexual harassment" and is a crime.
- "my employees / colleagues are not as effective without me breathing at their necks" - you are a terrible manager and leader if you can't inspire people in words only. Maybe even video.
My main point is, there is no argument against WFH. When people try to argue against it, they often actually mean "I don't like the pandemic". No shit. Life will be better after people stop dieing for breathing close to their friends and family. In the mean time, learn to organize your life instead of running away from it every day.
Have you ever been to love theatre? How many times? Have you ever seen a movie? How many?
Why so many more movies than live theatre? You think you would have liked the movies, and their price, more if it was live theatre? Would you have seen as many?
WFH is not perfect for everybody in the planet. But it sure is for the software industry.
rant
remote work
wfh