Python, the language, is fine.

Some aspects of it are even kind of elegant.

But Python, the VIRTUALENV ANACONDA BLEEDING ASSHOLE WHEELING PIPPING FUCKING TOOLCHAIN IS MORE RAGE INDUCI̵N̵G̵ THAN ANY O̶͔̔̄T̶̊̆ͅH̵̥͒Ȇ̶̥̓R̷̹̳̎̒ ̴M̴o̸d̵u̷l̸e̶N̴o̷t̴F̸o̸u̸n̶d̶E̵r̷r̴o̵r̴:̵:̶̼̳̙̾̈ ̷̧̲̗̓́̾͂N̶̙̆ó̵̱ ̷͔̔m̴͇̔ơ̸͕ď̷̲ư̷̢ḻ̷̉ê̷̼ ̸̗̓n̷̝̔a̷̙̓m̶̖̄è̷̡d̸̳̋ ̷̝̍ ̷͎̚'̷̻̌ḋ̷͔i̴͓͌ṡ̵͍t̵̘̽ṵ̵̊t̷̹͝i̴̛̦l̴̒͜s̸̩͝.̸̱̚u̵̪͆t̵̥͑ỉ̸͍l̵͚͠'̶͚͘

Just use docker.
Screw virtual env.
Also I don’t like how so many things are shortened in python. We have autocomplete now why shorten “string “ to “str”. Elegance IMO is reading a programming language as if ur reading English.

@darrenrahnemoon

Agreed. Sadly, you can't always easily use docker.

It's often some GUI tool, or IDE, or homebrewed devops suite which needs Python to be present on the system.

And then it's like you invited some "friend" into your house who now crashes on the couch, set up it's own little environment on a fridge shelf and complains you're all out of his favorite Num Pie 🥧, asking whether you can go fetch some from the Pip market, but not the Pip market on the corner, no, the special one on the other side of town because it has better stuff. So you take your bike, only to discover it's missing a tire because your "friend" thought it would be interesting to make a bong Module out of it.

And before you know it you're trying to sudo rm a bunch of naked dirty scabby meth heads from your bedroom, while the PM is yelling at the front door...

@bittersweet ... this deserves its own individual rant. Also - setting up a dual version python envs without docker is a huge pain!

@bittersweet for those cases I’ve moved the build inside the docker container so ur devops tools are also inside the container. And then I exec shell into it and do my stuff in it. Needs a beefy computer though…

Pyenv helps, otherwise just installing python is a pain. I've started using docker to bundle personal projects too now.

@darrenrahnemoon ehhh I switch off a lot of autocomplete stuff, less visual noise, so I don't mind short type names.

Right? I ranted about Linux and its pythons before but it wasn't perceived well so İ thought it's just me.

@prodigy214 Your answer is exactly the problem I have with Python.

For every part of the toolchain there are a gazillion alternatives, and in many cases you aren't even allowed to choose —For example a VScode plugin will just say "hey I need this Python script to work but don't worry I'll just set up a virtualenv thingie oh wait I need conda I'll just install that for your hey that's strange ERROR in module blah blah" which leads to spiraling down internet searches, trying CLI commands and before you know it it's 3AM.

I generally don’t like python. For everything. I mean there is not even one thing that’s likeable.

@bittersweet if i could i would try to recruit you, your analogies are lovely!

@bittersweet exactly 😀

Python has always been failing on so many levels. Because its architecture sucks big time.

If developers ( core team ) is serious about development first thing they should do is to rewrite it from scratch.

@macfanpl

I think what Python needs is an official toolchain.

For Rust for example, you have Cargo. Cargo does linting, compiling, package management, configuring workspaces, version/feature flags, running tasks, etc.

Python just needs to weed out the mess, and stuff all the tools together in one toolbox.

Python was the first real programming language I learned (Ti84 Basic before that) so I kind of love it for nostalgic reasons. That said, package management is kind of a disaster.

I'm trying to do more things in straight C now where I might otherwise use python. Yes it's more work, yes you can probably get something up quicker in python, yes I'm reinventing wheels along the way, but you know, I kind of like learning how wheels really work.

Try pipenv, for real. It's a really simple tool for managing your dependencies. Compared to pipenv, pip is only any good for installing pipenv.