Serious question, what's so great about using Macs for programming and dev work? Junior dev here and all my colleagues and superiors can't stand them.

Is there actually a technic benefit that I'm missing?

i have a mac since few months, and I have way less issues than other OS, I don't waste my time configuring and fixing it.

OSX is only as good as the Linux it started as. Here's a solid example:

Installation on mac:
brew install package
forget about it, it works now

Installation on windows:
Find the appropriate .exe
choose from list of options
avoid the majority of articles written for mac/linux
adjust the PATH
why isn't it working yet
restart
why isn't it working yet

I use OSX when I'm coding anything instead .NET. For that I need to turn VM on with windows (VS), but still using Mac 😂

Unless your developing Objective C or Swift then I don't see a great benefit of Mac. Unless you have to do Osx or iOS development your just paying 2 to 4 times the price for hardware that you could get with Windows or Linux.

UNIX based.

@smithalan2 naaaa, you just didn't say that! What a shame...

@smithalan2 how about node? I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a rusty fork than code node in Windows.

@smithalan2 or anything command line

@fiskolin Macs look pretty for sure, but why would I want to spend 1500 for a mid range Mac book when I could get a high spec Windows or Linux machine for cheaper :)

@ericfledderman in work I use Node everyday, on a Windows machine. Only problem I've had is with path length problems which npm 3 solved :)

@ericfledderman Yeah command line on Windows sucks. Luckily cygwin takes care of that. And bash is in beta on Windows atm.

@smithalan2 I hear this argument time and time again. It's not all about the hardware. Windows is literally painful to use for development in many cases. If your not doing .net, then I have no idea why you'd ever want to go through to headache of Windows. The deeper you dive into mac, the more you'll realize it. You can't make a proper assessment if you spend 10 minutes on a Mac after spending decades on windows. Give it an actual shot and I'll be shocked if your mind isn't changed.

@smithalan2 then you've never coded node on a Mac to realize how much trouble you were going through on windows.

@ericfledderman you put it perfectly.

@smithalan2 I have to agree with you on price thing. But I bet anyone could avoid that windows anoying things like "Force programm to close" fail, issues with turning on windows after simply reboot machine, etc, even with an high perf machine. UNIX based OS is an awesome reason to buy a Mac to

@ericfledderman I actually bought an old Mac book ( 2009) a week ago ( it hasn't arrived yet) As I'd lile to start development iOS apps as well, being able to develop only in Android natively kinda sucks. So as soon as it comes Ill be giving it a try. My only problem with Macs is the price.

@smithalan2 I'd be lying if I said that the price of a Mac isn't painful. I have no issues with his complaint. Let me know how it goes for you man. If you have any issues at all, hit me up. Glad to help.
ericfledderman at me dot com

@smithalan2 because you get what you pay for and windows sucks?!

The command key is the only thing I like in Mac OS over Linux. Mac OS is just hacked up Linux/Unix/Some other shit and has a lot of wacky stuff going on. But it makes me happy that I can command + C to copy and control + C to exit in a terminal. No need to retrain your brain to use the clipboard differently in a terminal.

@blackmarket to me Mac is just the most polished version of *nix you can get. I'd take Linux over windows for a dev environment.

i don't think the price should be something you consider too much as you are going to spend a lot of time on it. having a good and stable computer is good for many reasons. It's not uncommon to see old macbook around because you can keep it way longer than a PC. Also, the keyboard, touchpad, screen, battery is amazing, for such a good hardware (not talking about performances), you have to pay a lot for a pc that is equivalent

Well I'm a linux man myself but I'll tell you what one of my clients told me. "Mac is the best of both worlds you get linux tools with a preset os like you do with windows" after he told me that I asked why don't you use a preset install cd with puppet to setup a linux system and his response was that the computer doesn't come with it pre-installed. so you have his view of it being quicker to start with and my view of them being lazy not wanting to build a system that they can personalize to their workflow

@jckimble sometimes deadlines don't allow a lot for the time to customize a workflow. I don't think laziness is the right word here.

@jckimble if your goal is to create your own perfect system, and you have all the time in the world to do it. Sure, go Linux. I don't personally have that amount of time on my hands, nor would I be interested in spending it on system setup if I did have it.

@ericfledderman yeah your right about lazy being too strong of a word for some mac developers. personally it takes me about 4 hours to build an archlinux from scratch to a fully working system, with puppet it takes 30 minutes. so not having time to build it isn't really an vaild escuse to me seeing that the cost of time over the cost of buying a mac doesn't make getting a mac cost effective. now if your not good with shell and linux it may be for you if it would take you alot of time to set it up. but that being said it's one of those YMMV things

@jckimble consider this. My workplace supplies me with whatever machine I'd like. Money isn't really a factor for me then. So it is down to a time factor then.

@jckimble however your point is still valid. If you have the time and skills, and it's coming from your wallet... Linux should absolutely be a consideration.

@kevbost sums my experience with Zephir ..

@ericfledderman yeah if I worked at a company that gave me the choice between windows and a mac I probably would take the mac. especially since lately I've been using vim+tmux and my 2.5ghz quad core has been idle for the most part. you would still have to setup your dotfiles like you would with linux but that's a 5 minute one time process if you did your dotfiles right

I've been a Windows user for pretty much all of my life, but over the last few months I've found myself needing to interface with my Linux based VPS and I got some jobs to develop for iOS.

For me, having consistency between my dev environment and production environment would be preferred. Linux would have fit the bill just fine, had I not needed to develop for iOS.

I was dabbling in .NET a few months ago as well and for . NET there's no better place than Windows.

TL;DR There are no definite benefits to using a Mac over Windows. It just depends on the type of project you're handling.

Apple makes hardware and software, so you get better fine tuning of your specs, the performance differences are so obvious! Now down to the price tag, my attitude is that I need an x amount of money every 4 years for a laptop, I can either spend every year x/4 and get crap or I can buy a Mac straight away, oh and if you look on eBay you can find them for considerably less even the new ones!

Software is also a factor. I do Web Design and coding, so having PS running is a must-have. Wine? Not even fast enough to handle the small files, impossible to work with on the 1gb+ files.

And seing as Sketch is only available on Mac, I was bound.

Being linux and Windows based before, I am actually amazed how well-optimized some programs are.

PS as example, tested with Windows and osx on a hackintosh machine. Runs SO much smoother on OSX

I'm amazed how people still talk about Windows Vista issues while we have Windows 10 now! I'm using xamp to develop laravel apps and everything works fine even the artisan commands. I also use node js and run everything from command line! At the end, it is a subjective opinion and any os will work just fine for any developer.

@DamoMac It's just ego and showing off, no technical benefits though.

For me it's a simple decision; better command line tools with better support & better Mac only software

Notable reasons for me in no particular order:

- no scaling issues on HiDPI screens (Windows is so much pain here...)
- Native and working full screen mode (Linux and Windows don't have that at all)
- Useful and logically placed keyboard Shortcuts, customizable system-wide
- Bash and zsh (Windows has bash now but the terminal for it is pain, too)
- Sketch (Mac-only)
- Illustrator (not on Linux)
- Sequel Pro (not on Linux, HeidiSQL for Windows is so much worse...)
- Logic Pro X (for my hobby)
- UNIX-based
- dem Touchpads <3
- extremely long life of the hardware (in a usable state!)

@bluefirex ++ for dem touchpads

Cheers for the answers. What I'm hearing is that it really does come down to the type of work that you're doing and as of right now Windows is fine for me. @smithalan2 it'd be cool if you could let us know how you get on, I don't need anything new right now, but it'd be good to hear your opinion for any future purchases.

I dabbled with Hackintoshs years back, but it was more just to see if I could get it to work. Anyone know if there's much of a difference between a Hackintosh and the real deal in terms of performance and ease of use?

@DamoMac I've never used a hackintosh, but I'd be very interested in hearing feedback on this aswell. My understanding is that for the most you won't notice a difference except perhaps with the Mac App Store

@DamoMac Macbook arrived today. Currently in work crying my eyes out over electron. Will update in a few days when I've had a chance get used to it.

Building a hackintosh with i5-6600 and a r9 280x was straightforward af, took 2 hours Max. Most of the time spent dabbling a few Settings after Presets (skylake stuff).

I notice an increase in performance in comparison with Windows actually. At least with the programs that are optimised (see my last comment).

I can't feel any difference to the MacBook Pro I'm using at work.

But I'm still amazed that I only have to Plug in the MacBook for like an hour a day and I can work with it 9 hours straigh then.

@ericfledderman @DamoMac so after day 2 of using the Mac so far here are my thoughts.

1) way slower to boot than Windows. It's a low spec Mac ( 4gb ram, dual core) , I installed El Capatin onto it an fit takes about 2 minutes to boot up. I have an old laptop with same ram and a dual core, Windows 10 boots quicker.

2) I'm a fan of the UI, much cleaner and sleaker than Windows.

3) Keyboard shortcuts are useful. Dont really see a big advantage go them over windows though.

4) Security settings are quite annoying, reminds me of Vista Style UAC, although maybe you can turn off the constant prompts for admin user/pass

5) Trackpad is horrible in terms of no right click, although I'm not sure if new Macs have a right click.

Overall I do like the feel of the mac so far. It's just a matter of getting more familar with it and trying to stop right clicking. Opinion so far is windows is more easer friendly however. Will check back again in another few days after I have some dev done.

@smithalan2 You're getting a tough first impression having it on an older machine. My mba boots in no time at all, given it is only 2 years old.

@smithalan2 right click on tapping with two fingers. If that doesn't work, check Trackpad setting gs.

@smithalan2 Older Mac is the reason on the booting. I can't even count to 3 before my retina MacBook is booted. As for right clicks, Mac has had right click for a LONG time now. Common misconception. Two fingers tap is a right click. If you prefer it to be something else then you can hangs that in the trackpad settings. Play with all of those gestures while your in there.

@StefanH @valentindiehl Thanks for that. I put together my first system about a year ago and I expect it to last a good few years yet. I'm away on holiday in a couple of days, but I might consider dual booting and throwing Mac OS on there when I get back.

@smithalan2 props for updating us man, appreciate it. The other guys are right, it'll come down to the age of the machine. I've fixed Windows laptops of a similar age and they can be glacially slow to boot. Also I believe you can set the trackpad to register a right click from tapping the bottom right corner if you want that Windows feel.

This had been one of the most well mannered and helpful discussions about OSX that I've seen on the internet. Big up to all of you!

@kevbost have to agree! It makes for a nice change too.

@kevbost you are so right. Let me see if I can fix this...

F*ck Windows!

There... everything is back to normal now.

@ericfledderman @damomac we should all get stress balls to vent our secret rage against each other :) used a newish Macbook Pro in work today, much quicker all right, I really like the track pad gestures as well, don't have them in my 2009 one. Did a bit of development today on mine as well, some node using Sublime. I'm starting to feel a sort of love hate thing, some things I do love about Mac other things I love about Windows. Moving aside from platform specific stuff (dotnet, iOS and Osx, swift etc.) It really just seems to be down to personal preference, in a general sense I can't see any major benefits to using a mac over a pc and a pc over a mac. All depends on what you like I suppose. I genuinely would consider switching to a Mac full time just for a change if it wasn't for the price tag attached to one with the specs I'd need. Still going to tip away with the Macbook and see how it goes though.

@smithalan2 Yes, yes! Excellent! Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen. Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design. Your transition to the dark side is nearly complete!

@ericfledderman install linux. come to the dark side, we have cookies. lol

@smithalan2 That's exactly how it should be. If everyone would try out the options instead of just raging, like you did, these discussions would be a lot more peaceful. ;D

Thank you genuinely for trying it out and seeing the points of the "opposing party" and weighing it against your own.

In the end, it really boils down to preference and money. Sadly Macs are still bloody expensive.

@valentindiehl if we could give a vote# for this I would, but I only have a ++ option.

@valentindiehl @ericfledderman bang on point, preference and money. If Macs price matched pcs I'd be interested to see how much the user base would grow by, or even decline by. Sadly the trend with pcs getting more affordable in recent years hasn't happened with Macs. Also one of the major reasons Android dominates the phone market. Out of curiosity though, if we weren't referring to laptops/Macbooks, would you rather build a custom system or buy an iMac?

@smithalan2 depends on what I was using it for. And that opens up the hackintosh avenue also. I like to think of Mac as my "daily driver"... Linux is my sandbox for when I want to tinker... and windows for either for gaming or when Linux (with or without wine) just won't cut it.

@ericfledderman well here we are, a year after this conversation and I switched to a MacBook in work just 2 weeks ago, had no choice our new dev env uses Docker, and Docker fucking sucks on Windows. So far I have to say I'm loving it as a dev machine as I use it every day now. I have a few annoyances with it, for example the dock on multiple monitors just doesn't work, and a few other things, but I must say I'm impressed how everything just works. If they dropped the price by 1k or so I'd most definitely buy one for personal use haha. This thread popped onto my mind for some reason, said I'd write and update.

@smithalan2 We are happy to have you as part of the family! There’s for sure some minor annoyances but some of them easy fixes/workarounds. Feel free to reach out with any issues and I’d be happy to help you where I can.