rationality exists.

@AleCx04 😮😮

Wait, I'm allowed to have other interests? :o

I'm going to hell.

@thesagya
See you there
🤜🤛

There's two types of devs:
those that do it for the passion, and those that do it for the cash.

There's only 1 type I enjoy working with though.

@RememberMe no, he be lying.
@thesagya I'll save you a spot by the bar, I already pre-ordered my ticket.

@C0D4 ehhh kinda wrong.

You can be passionate and still acknowledge it's just a job without making it your life, hobby and personality trait. They're rare, but do exist.

There are two types of devs.. those who have a passion for it and those who do it for a “job”.

I personally only like to work with those who have a passion for it. Why? Because those who have a passion for it in my experience develop better software, willing to challenge and explore new ideas. Always looking for opportunities to improve their skills and their code.

Where as the “job” folks.. are mediocre at best... typically know the syntax but don’t have the real skills, the also have the idea of “it works so what’s the problem with this style code”...

Idk I view software very much as an art form. Or like Abstract engineering. You don’t just have artists who are artists because it’s a job.. I can typically read code before an interview tell weather the person has passion or is just looking for a job.

@C0D4 and there's also those who are doing it out of guilt - where they feel that if they won't do it asap others will suffer in one way or another. And they feel guilty for having some free time for themselfes [or for the lunch for that matter] while there's still some work pending :/ and so they ot until they fall asleep at 4am

Right. I am also learning stock trading.

@Stuxnet you can be passionate and not do it in your free time. The two aren't mutually inclusive... that I know off.

But you can always tell if someone is bullshitting there way around (cash type) or are actually trying to solve the next problem.

@rutee07 you be getting the PP later 😉

It's still a problem once it boils down to an employer picking between the candidate who does it just as a job, and the one who spends all their free time coding.

I've often pondered what the solution would be. For starters I figure it should be less accepted for an interviewer to ask about side projects you've done on your spare time. I wish I could call it a red flag, but it's a perfectly common thing to bring up.

Imagine interviewing for a plumbing job and they want to know if you do any unclogging in your spare time, and you start sweating because maybe they have other candidates that created a custom unclogging solution just for fun.

I'm passionate about coding and still decline weekend work, and especially refuse to do unpaid overtime - because passionate doesn't mean stupid.

While coding is indeed one of my hobbies, it's by far not the only one. Life has more to offer than just coding.

Also, I think a lot of the depression and girl cringe on devRant comes from living an unbalanced life as idiot savant.

@Fast-Nop
Yeah, but, why are we rewarding banal tweets of obvious statements with consideration 🤔

@SortOfTested Because we're on the clever side of assholes. ^^

For me my job is this actually (it never stops) but it works out great!

Important distinction:

Professional developers spend free time on their CAREER -- But not on their EMPLOYER.

The best developers have hobbies related to development. They might watch YouTube videos about math, design or tech. When they play a game, they wonder how it was made, get curious and look up how game engines work.

Their hobbies might expand to other fields, but while they rush through a forest on a mountainbike, their brain itches with questions about routes, distance, energy, etc -- when they cook a lasagna they wonder if a lasagna robot could be programmed to create an indistinguishably delicious dish.

The best professional developers do have some hobby development projects, and they do view it as much more than a job.

That doesn't mean it has to take up all of your time, but it does kind of permeate through everything you do.

If it is "just a job" to you -- sorry to tell you, but I would never hire you, because it's a huge red flag of mediocrity.

It touches on identity and career though:

I'm not sure whether there will be an economic singularity where all work is automated and humans are deprecated as a source of labor -- it might happen.

The question is, who are you, if your career has no economic purpose?

I would not trust a cook to be a great cook, if they wouldn't still want to cook after such a singularity. If it's "just a job", if it's just for the money, they will never rise above the level of a school cantina cook.

I ask every new hire this question:

"What would you do with your life if all labor was automated, and all goods and services were effectively free?"

It's not a right/wrong kind of question, but I do value a developer who comes up with wholesome, creative ideas and interesting projects they'd use to fill up their time when the concept of a "career" loses all meaning.

@bittersweet 100% true! Totally agree! And I’m gonna start using that interview question thank you!

@bittersweet I don’t understand this “prove me how much you love the programming/job” behavior of everyone

I am developing things for a long time and i enjoy/love it , it comes natural to me I don’t understand this need to prove so much loyalty. But i get removed from the interview when I mention that yes learning and hobbies are important (it goes without saying) and so is the fat cheque .

I just want to be real, passion for a job and hobbies can only get you so far. actually it’s a very “first world country thinking”

I don’t like establishing one one relationship between passion and quality of developer. May he have RAW intelligence in coding doesn’t mean he have to jizz on his code and call it daddy!!

@QuanticoCEO I hate these wannabe-psycho questions. My answer would be like "not dealing with kitchen psychology questions in job interviews".

@Fast-Nop LoL

@Fast-Nop if the person said that on the spot as an answer I’d still hire them lol. “Quick thinker” I like it haha

@hardfault @Fast-Nop

To me it reveals a lot about who they are, as a person.

I'm a developer myself, but also tech lead (ewww "manager", gross) of 65 other developers. I fight for their wellbeing.

So I ask that question to check who they would like to be if money & careers were completely irrelevant, and even incorporate some of their answers back into the workspace.

We built a small DIY workshop with 3D printer, PCB etching bench and soldering workstation in one office space for example, because one common answer was "I would tinker more with electronics and robotics if I had the chance"

There were also a lot of people saying "spend more time biking through nature", so as a company we decided to sponsor bike leases (employees get a high end bike for 15/m, company pays the other 60/m), and we organize regular bike rides partly within company time.

So, there's a good reason for that question.

Coding was my hobby until I started working as a programmer. I can’t imagine anything I’d be excited about doing on the weekend after having done it for 40 hours already. Also economic incentives ruins most things that are fun.

@bittersweet I don't even WANT to share too much personal info in a job interview. We're not about to become friends, but negotiate a working contract. I don't ask my boss either whether his ma snorts coke, after all.

@Fast-Nop
Ooh, sorry. the answer we were looking for was "establish an underground insurgency to tear down the new socialist establishment and ultimately re-enshrine the right, goodly capitalist oligarchy."

@QuanticoCEO On the other hand, if we were interviewing, you wouldn't get around to ask that question anyway because I'd put my embedded side project already in the application, and that would be quite a rabbit hole.

@Fast-Nop LOL!

@bittersweet This is the only appropriate thing to do with such answers. This releases the full potential of your employees. Contrary to saying that you don't want people to bike in their weekends, but want them to develop only

To be honest, I prefer working with regular cool people who kick ass at developing, instead of those die-hard IT virgins that are only programming in their spare time.

@Fast-Nop Meh, sounds like a bit too dry of a workplace for my tastes.

My boss knows how much LSD I use.

If one of my devs says: "Sorry I'm going to take two days off, I want to play this new game and it launches this monday" -- I give them the time off. I give them freedom, and I count on them being responsible professionals who finish their tasks on time.

I'm not friends with all of my coworkers. I need to share interests to form a friendship. But I don't think the feeling that secrecy about your private life is a must at work is healthy.

I understand that many employers have damaged that trust by abusing knowledge they have about employees, so I do get it -- and I won't hold it against an employee if they keep their private life private.

But, I do personally appreciate working in an office where you can discuss holidays, games, technology, sex, drugs, music, politics, etc -- respectfully, of course.

@bittersweet yeah I don’t care what employees do unless it effects the work output and ethic... of the drugs start causing the person to deliver shit late, can’t think straight, can’t answer questions on the spot because their brain is mush from drug abuse then we have a problem.

If the person wants to take time off for whatever reason fine.. but if it’s the same person who keeps fucking up, keeps missing deliverables and shit, then my response is no.... good employees get more privileges.. simple.. get your work done, keep the team going, keep the team learning keep our customers happy then I don’t care.. but if it slipps the fingers get pointing

@bittersweet Wow, that's a company atmosphere I've never seen anywhere in my life!

I'm more cautious and prefer to scout my surroundings. I'm not impersonal, but I take my time for warming up to people, and then on a by-case basis. Just because someone seems friendly doesn't mean I'd trust him right away.

Like in the fable that goes like this: a fledgling sat on a meadow, shivering of the cold. Then a cow came along and shat on the fledgling so that it was warm. After a while, a cat came along, saw the dirty fledgling, and cleaned it carefully. Then the cat ate the fledgling.

Moral: not everyone who gets you into shit is your enemy, and not everyone who gets you out of shit is your friend.

@Fast-Nop That's a great fable 😄

These passionate people tend to burn out more quickly. It happened to me and i’m not falling for the same trap again.

Said no one ever