As much as we like being elitists for a lot of shit:

I can either set a client with their own admin interface for authoring their content on their sites, spend hours configuring the shit they need and then spend more time setting up everything for a lot of additional shit.

Or

I can set them up with the newer versions of wordpress, call it a day and still charge for maintenance or adding pages to their shit and charge as if i was coding and preparing everything from scratch even though i would tell them It really is no problem charging billed hours for something that takes me minutes.

I dunno about y'all, but I ain't about to neckbeard over shit. I severely believe the hate to be displaced in current iterations of the cms.

I will... Just send a bill for work that was done. No interest in CMS shit, not interesting to me.

@SortOfTested it really is boring work, but i care more about money. If i could replace half the shit i do for doing wordpress bs all week I would. This is a job, not a badge of neckbeard honor to cry about. I legitimately don't give a fuck lol

I just like money

@AleCx04
Me too. Which is why I started my own thing and hired people. If any of that shit needs to be done, I can delegate it while I work on problems that have meat on them.

I have nothing against doing boring work as long as I’ve been paid on time with decent money.
I still need money ... at least couple paper sheets more.
3-4 years of decent job.

@vane aye my man you get it.

@AleCx04 Yeah but I think it’s only cause of the age and few dozens of failures and/or successes behind.
At some point technology doesn’t matter.
Young just wants new innovative stuff all the time while doing not much while old and experienced just want the shit done and call it a day to do other stuff.
It won’t change, it’s in our DNA 🧬

Okay but i code the entire thing faster than if i had to learn how to use wp

Edit: like it legit took me days to integrate a printify shop with wix, and i coded the entire thing in plain js in a few hours.

@yellow-dog first: wix != wp

second I legit doubt you can code half the shit wp does in a day. Not saying its impossible tho.

But if you accept the challenge i will be willing to contribute to a scala cms 🥴

@vane true. For me at least it is all about money. No one is going to give a shit if I build them a highly scalable system in Clojure. They just want shit running and out of the way. I normally go for the easiest option. 9/10 it ain't as damaging as most people here make it out to be i swear.

@AleCx04 not what wp does, but what id need from wp. I understand its a huge environment and it has plugins for everything, but do i really want to spend as much time reading up on plugins as i would spend just doing the damn thing? Perhaps idk i havent slept and its 7am.

@AleCx04
His point probably mirrors my experience:

I can create crud screens and auth with very little effort. You usually don't need most of what WP does.

That or 'it's the same task, I could automate it to a certain degree, but - meeeh. Pain in the ass.'

My take is if I have do sit at a desk for 40 hours a week I want to have some interesting work to do. Otherwise I'd get more depressed than I already am and also I doubt anyone is offering a paycheck large enough to make me interested in working on really boring stuff for longer term. If I have the chance to work on something interesting with enough disposable income (but not huge, say 10k €), then to work on something boring I'd want at minimum 10-20k € disposable income increase. Even then the salary motivation probably wouldn't last very long.

But also I don't work on web shit, only on other shit, so I can't say too much specifically about the horrific miscreation that is WordPress.

@yellow-dog this is my pain point with these sorts of discussions. Everyone acts like web development is such a sacred art and everyone here is a magician at their craft: Until they are not.
Would you trust your own authentication system? or that which has been set up by many other developers, tested by a group of other developers etc etc. That is just ONE example.

Now we are just delegating everything web development is to simple CRUD?

@SortOfTested really? is that all web development is now? CRUD screens? There is absolutely nothing manual from your main stack, correct me if I am wrong, but that being .net other than the dotnet new command.
Setting up endpoints with proper authentication, said authentication systems etc etc is a manual tedious task in .net, I could have understood that sentiment better had you said Rails or Laravel in which it really is a command, or heck even wordpress when it is out of the box.

Again: Customer is going to be asking me for pages etc and other crap, I can either set their stuff up in wordpress or neckbeard the entire system from the beginning, There is absolutely no way in hell someone here is going to make me see that one of these two do not take less effort than the other.

Not to bee nitpicky, nor do i intend to sound rude, but one usually doesn't need most of the things x stack gives them. Web frameworks/CMS are no exception.

@saucyatom you don't "work on web shit" but yet know that wordpress is a "horrible miscreation"?

Fascinating.

I am not a F1 driver, but I have heard that ferraris are absolute shit now a days.

@AleCx04
If you're boiling the ocean down to "tasks that a CMS is good for with a customer willing to use it," then it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Knock yourself out.

Most of the people I get who want to "add pages," have been tacitly unwilling to deal with existing layouts, they want to throw a Word doc at me and make magic, pokey button monkey 👨‍💻🐒🐵🙈. If we're doing that work anyways, I'm going to bill them to stand up a simple static crud screen with some boxed editor tools and they can pay me for the maintenance.

WordPress doesn't really solve those problems for me.

@AleCx04 It was a bit tongue-in-cheek (hence I said "[I work] only [on] other shit"), don't take that too serious.

With my admittedly limited knowledge I'd still consider WordPress' (mis)use of heaps of classes and megabytes of css bloat as bad from an engineering POV and yes, arguably a miscreation compared to a simpler DOM with some CSS on top.

However I get that some (if not most, given the current state of the web) clients don't really care about performance and only few will care about the technical basis.

@AleCx04
Re: auth, neglected to reply to that.

I created schematics for an identity server with OIDC, a fully integrated FE library and front end clients for that take about 5 minutes to stand up. It's no big deal for us. It also features entitlement security on a uri basis.

I even have a file-configured identity server that can be configured with little to no effort. It's part of our secret sauce.

That shit is legitimately trivial.

@SortOfTested not saying it is not trivial to set up these sorts of services, but these items are far too much to take into account to give someone the ability to add a new About Us page. My point being, for something that wil mainly present mostly static data with little to no dynamic portions it will always be overkill for something that can literally be setup with a cms in seconds. Even if (for example) the wordpress oidc plugin doesn't cut it you can easily add your own plugin into the system with said implementation in a few working hours and be done with it.

I am 100% not saying that WordPress should even be the number 1 solution for everything, but merely stating that for such basic stuff (pages) it is about as trivial as one can get without having to do a lot of things that would require more manual labor.

@AleCx04 bro type less please you know 20 words is my limit

@yellow-dog tl;dr wordpress is pretty shitty in a lot of things, but i ain't about to work more for people to be able to just put semi-dynamic sites for small businesses on something that would take me 2 hours for about $800 bucks :P