It's ok to deal with PHP.
It's (kinda of) ok to make new stuff with It.
Stop pretending that it's not broken.

(I know php8 blah blah, but let's face it, without a good framework it's unmanteinable)

I dunno, i'm just frustrated by the low salary that PHP give to me.

If you're frustrated by the low salary , move to something else! Or somewhere else :-)

@AlmondSauce i literally moved three weeks ago, it's better but still low.

I tried getting a Go job, but i wasn't enough sadly.

Why not, it's not a "modern" as Javascript claims to be but it gets the job done.

Frameworks don't automagically mean maintainability either, the shit I've seen I've wondered why they even used a framework with core classes being rewritten for their own shit.

Php is going through a phase of lightning changes though and I'm pissed at the changes introduced in php8 from a backwards compatibly standpoint, making it near impossible for some projects to me migrated over without heavy lifting.

But overall, if you start a new project in php8 it's going to run, and it's going to run well.

PHP is an old and abused language and it's stood the test of time.

But in saying that, here I am creating projects in react / node instead of php these days 🤷‍♂️

As for salary, of course it'll be low, there's millions of php devs that will take minimal wages, and that's how supply and demand works.

If you want a higher salary, find a better company or a higher paying stack.

@C0D4 everything can "get the job done", even Perl.
At any Job i would never take a PHP without a framework that is battle tested, it's time to give up on custom and expensive (on the long run) stuff.

I'm studying to improve my skills and learn new stacks, it takes time and i'm sadly frustrated now :(

@C0D4 -PS: i'll start to take PHP seriously when they start to take away all the ugly string functions for something more consistent.

Look, if you are a PHP developer unhappy with the technology or the salary why not jump ship and take on a more "enterprise type" tech stack?

.NET and Java developers generally get paid better (in most places at least), and love it or hate it but they are rock solid languages (yeah yeah, expecting some fanboi reactions here but give me a break..). Or learn React and get a better paid frontend gig.

You already know how to write code, so it shouldn't be too much of a transition. Don't be a one-trick pony.

@devdiddydog that's the path that i'm taking, i only don't have so much time (i'm also taking a CS degree) and ATM i need to put food on the table :(

@devdiddydog i am good at Angular/react, i dropped frontend because it was really frustrating me

I'll try the .net env, but here in Italy they are not payed sooo much sadly.

I'll finish my degree and then i'll try Europe :)

@8lall0 Are PHP jobs paid better than .NET? These days remote work is also an option. Spend a couple of years getting some experience locally and then apply for remote work in a neighbouring country where salaries are better. You're close enough to Germany, Switzerland etc where I'd expect the rate is high.

It's a long term plan, but well worth it in the end.

@devdiddydog nope, almost same salary.

PHP is a mess and I don't really enjoy writing it, basically a load of native functions with about ten aliases each - but that doesn't mean that 90% of the fuckups around and associated with it aren't bad workmen blaming their tools.

Excuse me, what the actual fuck? The worst part about modern PHP is the frameworks. One of the main reasons I like to use it for web dev is exactly because it is so nice to work with without any dumb ass framework to get in your way - which btw is the exact opposite of the JS world, where getting anything done in vanilla is a pain in the ass and you have to rely on some dumb ass frameworks to get shit done. No thanks, I’ll keep working in the battle-tested vanilla PHP any day of the week over some of the other shit out there…

@100110111 you are literally comparing apples and oranges.

@8lall0 in a way, yes. But am I though? The field of application is, especially after the advent of fullstack js, in many ways the same. Yet I’d rather work mainly with vanilla PHP with the mandatory bits of JS sprinkled where it actually belongs than do the same shit with any JS frameworks.

Don’t take me wrong, those have their uses. But for anything that goes to prod? Nope. Give me PHP - or a toolset that’s better, if the skills palette of my colleagues would allow it. Alas, it does not.

@100110111 vanilla PHP is "fine" only for short scripts. I would never never never build even a small website in vanilla, unless i discover a masochist side inside me

@8lall0 suit yourself. But I get it. You’re just not that bright, are you? Bull-headed the very least, as is quite evident from some of your previous rants and comments.

@100110111 i'm just tired of dealing with BS only because someone ten years ago said "ok, that's a good idea"