@Root Nah, you're full of shit and clearly needed a scapegoat for your anger. I was simply explaining how most of the time I'm having these interactions it doesn't take long for things to devolve into casual racism and/or sexism. And I was (and still am, by the way) getting those vibes from you. That's just a statement of fact.

Anyone who says they're afraid to speak their minds due to allegations pf racism are automatically suspicious to me. Doubly so if they claim political apathy and get super defensive when pressed on it. You're really not that special in that regard.

You wanted to make this all about yourself, so if you're so afraid of making an impression, maybe keep your backstory to yourself. Or stop acting like a literal child about it. I don't care about your particular views or "who you really are inside". I care about the stupid shit you say, because you're part of a larger discourse that enables the worst kind of people to get away with ignorance.

@Root It's very apparent that you're angry yes. But I haven't done an ad hominem against you even once, so you can rest easy. I didn't say you were part of any far right movement or shared sentiment with them. But I don't rule it out either. And the reasoning behind that is that at this point you've shown all the hallmarks of a Reddit edgelord who's very susceptible to far right propaganda, and I know next to nothing about you. Although I can probably guess from your apparent political ignorance and emotionally charged language, to which I'll promptly clutch my pearls in response.

It's very telling to me that this in particular sets you off and I honestly regret reaching across the isle to offer you any kind of good faith. Sharing my sentiment and experience is not an ad hominem. And even if it was, I don't recall signing up for a debate.

Frankly, at this point I couldn't really care less about who you are as a person. You're not that interesting. But you sure say some dumb shit.

@aviophile This is getting ridiculous and childish. "Surrender"? What are you on about? And no, that is not what an ad hominem is. Please stop pretending to know what it means. It does not mean you have to be nice. I could say I thought you were stupid and it still wouldn't be an ad hom until I used that as justification for an argument, in which case it would be a logical fallacy. Which I haven't done.

Furthermore, not addressing your frankly weird assertions doesn't mean I agree with them. If I had to unpack everything you said, I'd need to have this awful conversation indefinitely with an infinite supply of characters.

You sure like jumping to conclusions about what I believe and make assumptions about my judgement. Something I was very careful to explicitly not do. Separating my feelings on the matter from what I could objectively put together and my experience dealing with the subject.

I feel like I'm barely addressing a human, because you all pretty much repeat the same shit.

@aviophile You clearly don't know what an ad hominem even is.

@Root I've been very precise with my speech and have not accused you of anything. Just expressing what I feel you might be like, and it's setting off a lot of alarm bells honestly. You can get upset about it or not, I don't particularly care.

What I do care about is you making this about "the left" being pro-censorship when you seem to have very little grasp on what "the left" is about. "Just leave people alone" is not an political philosophy, it's a sales tactic by way of apathy to benefit the right. There's no substance there, so I can't take it at face value.

I think it's absolutely fine to complain about inauthenticity, especially on social media and in the workplace. We should talk about real issues, and you should not get fired for being wrong or making mistakes.

I don't think you're in the center, I think you're solidly right-leaning. As a socialist libertarian myself, I'm firmly on the left of course. Let's not play this "enlightened centrist" game, it's rather dull.

@Root I've read plenty of libertarian "centrist" posts online to get the gist at this point. Look man, this is a place to rant, so go crazy if you need to, especially if it helps you mentally cope. I mean this sincerely.

However, I have to say what you're giving me right now is major alt right vibes. I've had to deal with quite a few alt right colleagues, and let me tell you we're all better off if they keep their hatefilled rhetoric to themselves. They all think they're centrists even when they believe in "race realism" and "the great replacement". If you're worried about being labeled a Nazi for your genuine views, maybe consider your media diet.

And this idea that it's "the left" censoring is honestly laughable. Any actual leftist will attest to their opposition towards unjust hierarchies. Tech corporations care about the bottom line, not some ideological purity test. Racism just happens to be bad for business.

@Voxera yeah, I've tried navigating around it by using Cake. It gets me some of the way, but I'm running into issues where MSBuild.exe is being looked for in different places - some that don't exist on my machine.

If run through the dotnet CLI, MSBuild is packaged separately. Then, visual studio has its own version depending on which version of visual studio you're using (hate the IDE as well) when you build.

Ideally, I'd just have all my build tooling in the repo, but I have to fight the tech stack every goddamn step of the way. I'm getting too old for this crap...

I blame hollywood for the wizkid hacker stereotype.

"I'm an idea"
- The Joker as portrayed by Jared Leto

So yeah, I think you're spot on.

Stared at my monitor, then out the window, then back at my monitor. Tried to deploy something, it broke. Had to roll back and nothing was accomplished.

So I feel pretty great.

@Root how exactly is "the left" making speech dangerous lol

@r-fu they have 30 years of stagnation more like

@LotsOfCaffeine There's a "new" sdk format that differs a lot from the previous one and you can even target Framework and Core simultaneously. The new format is amazing and perfect and I love it. But I'm still stuck on the old one for my web application that I am unable to update due to it being built on top of a third party CMS we can't get rid of.

So tired of shit not just working consistently in an idempotent manner...

Status update:
I had to scrap the whole thing. I would complain about juniors, but I know I wrote way better code when I was one. Completely unmaintainable, and they spent several WEEKS on it. I'm not sure how many man-hours went into it and I don't think I wanna' know to be honest.

@marcorodnav obviously it depends on the code base, but you can still apply patterns in your code and write it fast. Sometimes I'd argue it's faster, because it's something you probably have done before and can copy/paste where needed. :)

People who excuse their deeply nested unreadable code on tight deadlines have always bothered me.

I can't even write that sort of code anymore, because I can't keep track of what I'm doing.

@CoffeeNcode Yeah, luckily our deadline was moved back one week. I'm already rewriting the entire API layer for this component. I'm thinking of pretty much only keeping the styling. I only skimmed the code, but wouldn't be surprised to find DOM selectors in there as well...

Why not just use Trello then?

Blender's the only 3D program I ever "got". I remember using Maya once for some uni project for a couple hours because it supposedly was the "real thing". Then I gave up and went back to Blender since Maya want explicitly required. I mean, don't know about now, but Maya's UI was an absolute clusterfuck compared to Blender.

Angular ... JS

I mean, I guess if we're just redifining words, you can make anything sound profound. It's like saying it's lazy to take out the trash because it'll be harder to get around if you don't.

@JAY505 Frameworks solve common problems and abstract existing complexities. It would be like saying using patterns is adding complexity. I mean, sure, but at least there's documentation for it. There are many reasons to not pick frameworks for a particular project. In this instance none of them apply.

@shivam-singh
Well, if you're getting paid hourly, then that's great haha.

Just show them differences in estimates, then they can figure out if they're willing to put their money where their mouth is.

And when they complain you can simply say: Well, you wanted us to reinvent the wheel for a prototype, so we did.

When you say "vanilla" JS and "no framework", does that exclude libraries like jQuery, bootstrap and the like? I mean, there's really no reason to reinvent the wheel in terms of grid techniques etc here if what you're doing is simply prototyping.

At my place of work we use UX tools for these things, although you can pretty much get away with simple ms paint images or physical drawings most of the time. It seems very expensive to implement functionality for the purposes of UX.

@FranklySimple
Alright. Here are some arguments you can use if you haven't already. Obviously I don't know the whole story and scope of your solution, but I think this is a good place to start:

1. It's more cost effective in both the short and long term to fix the current web app.
2. The app will perform better in Google search rankings as a result.
3. Users don't like installing your app from the app store if they can avoid it. They RARELY search for it in the app store.
4. Users expect native capabilities from native apps and will hate your solution if their expectations aren't met.
5. The app will get buried in down votes and leave a negative impact on its users.

You can also start questioning the business case behind the native app. Why does it need to exist? What business goal does it solve? I firmly believe this "solution" of his will do more damage than solve any particular problem. Truly a "don't build something nobody wants" scenario.

Depends on what you are building and your level of experience.

For me and my use cases it goes as follows. Keep in mind that everything in the end is just JavaScript:

Plain JavaScript: Minor DOM manipulation and some basic functionality.

JavaScript with jQuery library: Advanced DOM manipulation and some data fetching / posting to and from a server.

Angular/Vue/React: When you need reusable components in your web application and/or plan to turn it into a Single Page Application (SPA).

Bootstrap is not a JS framework and can work with any of the above approaches, although it does require jQuery regardless.

Once you get deeper into the weeds, you should start thinking about how you want to bundle your application's code and styles to minimize download size. There are many tools for that - webpack, gulp, grunt are the most popular right now.

I personally only write typescript and less at this point - simply because it results in more maintainable code compared to vanilla JS / CSS.

I really have to question why this needs to be a native app when most users hate installing yet another app and would rather access the site directly via Google in a browser.

You should really just fix the mobile frontend, then optimize for PWA standards. With service workers and the likes these days, you don't need a native app to do most common things. It would also get you a better ranking in Google. If you do it right, you can even mimic a real app on Android (don't know about iOS) when people add the site to their home page.

That really is the smartest solution and would stick to the "one code base" rule.

Legacy codebases? Older developers refusing to learn git? Who knows...

I've been fortunate enough to only use git in my career.

+1 for VS Code.
It's technically not an IDE, but with the right extensions it can have IDE like features.

@TheOct0 Thanks :)