A question for the people who say Macs are superior...

WHAT THE FUCK

I'm wrestling this iOS signing issue for the fourth day. How the fuck do people manage to build anything using tools broken by design and sold to them for the price of their mother.

When you don’t get the difference between a mac and a very specific software that is written for it…

@Lensflare in unix there's basically no difference. It's all coming from the same vendor

@netikras even if it’s from the same vendor, there is still a huge difference.

Macs are expensive but good. Macos is superior to Windows.
Macs can have software written for them that is garbage.

@Lensflare I am sorry, but after the last few days I'd rather say "Macs can have software written for them that is proper", not the other way around.

a genuine question: how do you people debug anything in macos....?

- dtrace/strace blocked by SIP

- proprietary commands provide shitty explanation of errors

- errors are undocumented (how is this UNIX...? Look at the AIX's approach - they've done outstanding work there!!) [Unknown Error: -2,147,409,850 when generating CSR with xcode]

- using legacy protocols (only supports .p12 containers created with the `--legacy` option)

- etc.

Is this the case of walking through glass and fire for years until you develop "the hunch"? So far I've been working with long-time iOS devs and they still base their troubleshooting on pure guesswork. Is this the apple way....?

and now I've just wasted ~2 hours debugging why the fuck git stopped working. `git fetch` just sits there. Trace shows all the right requests UNTIL it's time to actually start fetching data.

It started working the moment I logged out from the GUI session......

I know people often exaggerate this, but I'm certain that if I end up in hell, I'll be forced to use MacOS. It is the ultimate torture to me, as a software engineer.

it has the looks of a decent Linux/UNIX OS, but it just doesn't work that way. And it doesn't tell you why.

@netikras signing and distribution is honestly a major PITA.
But the actual development in Xcode (in Swift or even Objective-C) is flawless.
For debugging you use Xcode and every error is documented.

I'm a Linux guy but forced to use mac at work. It's annoying, but thank God it's not Windows.

bash-5.2$ brew install ca-certificates

<...>

bash-5.2$ ls -l /opt/homebrew/etc/ca-certificates/cacert.pem

lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 80 Apr 5 15:13 /opt/homebrew/etc/ca-certificates/cacert.pem -> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/ca-certificates/2024-03-11/share/ca-certificates/cacert.pem

bash-5.2$ ls -l /opt/homebrew/Cellar/ca-certificates

total 0

drwxr-xr-x 6 ec2-user admin 192 Aug 29 12:01 2024-07-02

bash-5.2$

.....

@mostr4am I don’t care what you have experienced when you were working for the Apple Support or whatever. It doesn’t matter.

From my decades of experience, compared to Google and Microsoft, Apple has the best developer experience by far.

Sid's mother costs same as Android devices

if you charge people a lot of money you trick them psychologically into thinking you're quality

that's Apple's legacy

@-red this exactly

@jestdotty if you charge people less money you trick them psychologically into thinking you are a good deal.

that’s Google's legacy

@mostr4am I read that story multiple times from you already 🙂
Nothing of it has anything to do with how the price relates to the quality.
It’s just an anecdote about how shitty you find Apple.
I agree it’s shitty. But again, nothing to do with price/quality.

I feel your pain, brother. I struggled with it for the last three days, part time, but nevertheless agonizing.

I ended up deleting every developer certificate off of every machine I have and revoking everything from the Apple developer account.

Several ghost certificates in Xcode that I can’t get rid of no matter what I do, but this approach allowed me to create singular new certificates and actually have a compile and link and run successfully.

I’m convinced that people who claim their security professionals are full of shit, definitely NOT engineers. They’ll force you to have certificates on your software like having seatbelts on easy chair. It’s asinine and it prohibits and inhibits development . It clearly doesn’t prevent malware. Fake security.

I wish Apple would focus on fixing the bugs, which are vulnerabilities themselves, instead of trying to wrap themselves in chains and self flagellating, hitting us Developers in the process.

Yes, Xcode does suck.

@netikras check my username. It sucked when it was NeXT Step too.

@mostr4am working for Apple Support hardly counts as working for Apple.

@jestdotty err… okay

@jestdotty technically correct and obvious.
And technically I said that it *hardly* counts.
Do you have more insubstantial comments on that?