You know .. the usual

Every time

well HTML in fact *IS* a coding language.

@netikras
You want to see the world burn?
Cause that's how you see the world burn.

@metamourge It's not a programming language since it does not have program flow components. But it IS a coding language, because you DO write *code* for a browser to read.

HTML literally translates to hyper text MARKUP language. So if you consider markup to be code, then sure it is a coding language. But if then, so is Markdown and Tex. Interestingly Google considers both HTML and Tex to be "programming" languages while Markdown is not, eventhough markdown is just Markup modified.....

@CatMDV https://w3schools.com/hTml/...

and I quote:

"Comment tags are used to insert comments in the HTML source code."

Noticed the last word?

Also usually you are inspecting website's source code in your browser, not some source markup :)

*non-dev

@netikras while that makes sense, it also means a typical MS word document is also source code since it is just a glorified xml file with added resources bundled together.

This argument is stupid. Nobody agrees on what a "program" is. Everybody says that a program needs to be able to make decisions - but then, is this c not a program?

#include <stdio.h>

int main(){
printf("Tiddy");
return 0;
}

All it does is display things on the screen, but for some reason, this is a program, and a website isn't (Which would also be something just displayed on a screen). I was taught that a program is a list of instructions. The fact that a language may have an "if" is irrelevant.

A lot of this argument just comes from the hate on noobies that say they know a programming language, to which some asshat pushes up his glasses, sorts cynically, and with a cracking voice screeches "HTML ISNT A PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE IT ISNT TURING COMPLETE YOU KNOW NOTHING"

@AlgoRythm doesn't printf have decisions underneath? :)

@netikras printf has less decisions underneath than HTML. Printf just uses the OS's text output and renders characters in a 1:1 fashion into cells. HTML uses fonts with variable size glyphs and needs to split them up accordingly, render their position in pixel-perfect space (instead of just cell blocks like in a console) and with correct padding, margin, color, size, effects (Bold, italic), not to mention CSS transformations, and every other property for text available on the web.

So yeah, printf has decisions in the backend. And they pale in comparison to the HTML backend.

@AlgoRythm
HTML does nothing, the browser does all of that

@AlgoRythm HTML describes Page, which can be rendered by other programs. While printf tells the PC to do something.

@J4s0n printf does nothing, the compiler turns it into a program.

@AlgoRythm its a command :"print that" while HTML say : "this page should look like that "

And the compiler is a part of the language

@J4s0n If the compiler is part of the c language, than HTML is a browser.

Think about it, how does c have so many different compilers if the compiler is part of the language, shouldn't there be only one?

Doesn't it make more sense that the specification is part of the language, and the compiler is the thing that does the work? The compiler is completely separate and only follows the standard.

C is just text. A list of instructions. HTML is just text. A list of instructions. They are used to make different programs, but both make programs.

@AlgoRythm no HTML dose describe Pages like latex but not Programms. And no the compiler is part of the language. But I guess you don't want to understand that so I end this conversation here. https://ischool.syr.edu/infospace/... maybe this link will explain it better. Also to clarify that a compiler does not execute anything it only translate the code from language a into language b.

@J4s0n The first comment is where I will end my discussion, then.

"People who say that HTML is not a programming language do so because they do not know any better or because they do not understand plain English or computer science. Using a Mark up language (like HTML) is a type of programming... at least as far as science and the English dictionary is concerned. For example, I am an animal in the same way as a cat is an animal. The cat and I both fall under the same category of animal. Just because I fall under the category of Homo Sapiens does not mean that I no longer fall under the category of animal."

And no, the compiler is NOT a part of the programming language.

@AlgoRythm so what are you saying? That C is a markup language? Or that HTML is a programming language?

If you write a program that is not making any decisions I say it's a dumb program. But I have no idea how to write decision tree or an iteration in html. Do you?

If you have a tank and use it to drive to work only it doesn't mean you have a car. You still have a tank, you're just using it as a dumb car. You CAN use its cannon. But if you have a car, the cannon isn't even there to begin with.

So if you write a C or asm program that only does a=1, it's still weitten in a programming language. It's just a dumb program... But you can use the same lang to do more stuff with it. But when you have HTML - you have a dumb car that doesn't even have a cannon or a way to branch to begin with.

@netikras My argument is that "programming language" is a stupidly broad term because anything that can instruct a machine to do something g is a programming language. There are

- No official standards for what a programming language is or is not
- Lot of hate towards HTML "programmers"
- Lots of opinions on what a programming language IS

The fact is, it's all semantics. And as it stands, it's correct to say that HTML is a programming language. A program's ability to make decisions is irrelevant, although if there WAS some sort of universally accepted standard for the term, that's probably what we'd use to determine a programming language from more basic information.

Things which also instruct machines to do things, but are not considered programming languages (Due to abstract and non-agreed-upon ideas on what a PL is):

XML
JPEG
JSON
.DOC(X)

All of these things are used by a machine to perform some tasks. In the most basic sense of the term, everything on a computer that can be interpreted as instructions in SOME MANNER is written in a programming language.

I recognize that c is different from HTML. I recognize that they are different types of PLs capable of different tasks. But I argue that they are both programming, and I argue that through the misunderstanding that code is special in some way (It isn't - it's just text) we have separated the two off based on what they achieve. No, they are both programming. Isn't it correct to say you're "programming a number into your phone"? That's just data entry! But it's still programming. It's still giving a machine an instruction. People forget that and get caught up in the magic. There's no magic, only data.

Xml [which also means html], jpeg and json are data structures. They have no instructions, but they contain data. Hence there's no programming here.

Doc[x] is a zip file full of xmls and other shit. How is a zip file relevant here?

Data structures is something programs, the ones that do have cpu instructions, process. Programs might have embedded data structures but they are not the primary concern of a program.

Do you seriously not see a big fat red line separating those? Should I copy and paste a wikipedia link to a 'computer program' explanation?