I cannot stand when they sugar coat their training and support structures in the interview then turning that into: We expect you to learn on the evenings and weekends as a “hobby”. My hobby is my choice not your choice otherwise it doesn’t mean a hobby, it means over time that you don’t want to pay for.

Unfortunately to be a good Dev you do have to spend some of your time learning outside of work. Learning a profession should be partly done outside of work - you don't expect a doctor to roll up and learn everything 9-5.

It's a tricky one.

@Crost I do, but I choose what I want to do. If I want to learn a different technology or I am interested to build a different project using other concepts that interests me, I should be doing that.

@Ceren fair

Agreed.

I also learn tech stuff in my free time sometimes, but that's none of my employers business. I could be wanking my life down the drain and it shouldn't matter to anyone as long as I do my job on working hours...

Doing projects learning things are sugar sweet but I believe as developers we should also have work life balance and should be able to go to concerts, holidays do things we enjoy, rest etc if we please. We only have one life we are all going to die. Otherwise what is going to be on our graves this? </>

This is one of the reasons why I have no plans to change jobs any time soon. I asked my boss if she's fine with me dedicating about 45 minutes of my office time per day to studying tech stuff that I'm gonna be using for the job anyway, and she was perfectly fine with it. To reciprocate, I use about 20 to 30 minutes of my break as part of the studies and only end up using about 20 to 30 minutes of work time. It very much is time that is saved anyway, if you look at it in the long term.

The idea of HAVING to keep thinking about work related stuff after the end of the day or during the weekend is fucking stupid, and I will never understand why people defend this shit.

@Crost not necessarily
Look learning on the job is possible
I learned transact sql on the job
I learned c# on the job
I learned a lot of crap on the job

The idea that a dev should have no personal life is as with al professions the reason our country sucks

I’m all for a slight pay cut for ramp up time
And I’m al for paid training

And honestly it sounds like they’re doing the old drive the dev crazy till he’s used up and avoid paying unemployment trick

Don’t listen to bad advice you’re not wrong

Work at higher levels is often more relaxed but can be hectic as well

But one thing is for sure work needs to be left at work barring the occasional on call scheduling or the occasional few weeks of mandatory overtime

@AvatarOfKaine as you say, but in my experience 'seniors' often don't know what they're talking about. I have never worked with another developer that understands DDD, testing, clean code. I don't think I ever would have learned that on the job.

I have misgivings about learning from other people on the job. Mostly blind leading the blind.

Also employers are getting used to this idea that highly benefits them. Now they are looking for it as a requirement. Obviously it suits them well and they are abusing this hobby and passion situation on their favour. If you give stuff for free everyone would open their hands to take it. This also includes your energy and free time.

Amen! We are sitting in front of out computers for the job during day and they dare want more time in front of computer? Way to get Alzheimer becore 50.

@Crost the reason you dont learn these things that would just be so excellent is that noone wants to pay to make them happen.

truthfully unless it was a generated method in which case youd' unit test the generator, there would be an extensive unit test for every last class and/or function in your code

sometimes getting this to work is hard

but in a perfect world, yup.
clean code... well that kind of is more about formatting to make it perty and to try to minimize what you're doing when you can.

but yeah noone wants to pay.

@Crost what is ddd ?

@AvatarOfKaine domain driven design

@Crost I don't agree with this. It doesn't have to be outside of working time. You should be able to allocate some of your working time for learning purposes. I mean companies should encourage you to do this.