i'm feeling so sick right now.

PM invited team for today to present his "vision": "<name of our component>: what it is and what it is not".
but it didn't make sense and showed that he hadn't understood the problem at all. the whole architecture made no sense given the problems that shall be solved. his architecture diagrams missed some essential parts that were actually the giant weak points of his concept. his pseudocode, that should exemplify interactions between components, didn't address the complexity of required interactions at all. it's like he expects some magic to happen and has no fucking clue about the requirements (but acts like it), even though he is the manager of this software project.
and when devs ask really interesting questions that fundamentally question his concept, discussions lead to nowhere and questions are not answered. at some point he literally said "there is no such thing as <name of our component>, i still have to find this out"
really!? after one and a half year, since you sold the idea for this component to upper management, and after half a year of development, you still can't tell what it is what we actually want to build? are you fucking serious?!

at some point in discussion he said that these questions need to be answered but that "there's no time left", and he ended the meeting. although there was still half an hour of meeting time left.

i'm so fucking sick of this, i hate everything right now. i can't listen to this bullshit any longer. in discussions, he contradicts himself all the time, it is so fucking surreal i'm starting to feel like i'm insane.

it makes me really sad and tired. i don't want to care about this shit any longer.

  • 7
    Not admitting your own mistakes and lack of knowledge is a big red flag.
  • 5
    Yeah that sucks, fuck him or actually don't, we don't want any offspring from him :P. I hope you get transferred soon, it's not funny anymore :(
  • 4
    How the fuck did his pseudo code look?

    public static void main(String[] args){
    //do everything I want
    System.out.println("PM IS GREAT");
  • 3
    @Jifuna thanks <3 i hope that too..
  • 5
    @CodingPeasant kinda ^^ i like how Java is pseudocode for you :> public static void Main string args is pseudo for what?

    his example was like this

    but components shouldn't share any common data types and should be completely independent from each other. our component should be very generic and not know anything about other components.

    when i asked, if the application using these components should then be responsible for transforming data types from e.g. component1 API to our API, PM then said, no, there SHOULD be common data types used by all component APIs which WE should define.

    .... what now?? 🤷‍♀️
  • 5
    @soull00t Get your cv out. Polish it. Send it out. Say yes to what ever the PM says or does. Give 0 days notification when you leave. When asked why, say that you need a change of pace. Time it for the worst possible moment.

    The PM should never get into how things are implemented. The devs decide how it is implemented, and what is the cost. The PM job is to take all the relevant inputs (PO, client, Vision) and create a technical requirments. Then sit with the team and hammer out the costs, amd whats going.to be done first. Thats it.

    That mf will destroy the team. Everyone will get away.
  • 5
    At that point, I'd reject any of his stupid orders and flat out tell him that he's a completely clueless clown and needs to shut up - every time he lets out some brain fart. If he has no disciplinary rights, there's nothing he can do because he's not a superior.
  • 4
    From what @soull00t wrote, that PM has the higher ups full support, and it is that way for a while now.
    Two options:
    1. Higher ups don't care, becuase they are lazy, or they know that PM and gave him something no one cares about.
    2. Higher ups have invested more then a Year into the PM vision, and mow they will continue to support the PM. And you know he definatly blames the team for not being able to deliver on his insanity.

    In any case - @soull00t should leave that train wreak ASAP.
  • 4
    @magicMirror yeah, that's exactly what is happening right now. i expect that in a matter of time there won't be any team left to "manage". also, gossip has it that management has finally started to realize that he is bullshitting them as well.

    and yeah he completely fucks our scrum braindead, but whenever we criticize our scrum, he says we stupid clueless devs "still have to learn a lot about the scrum process"...
  • 7
    why are PM's acting as the owners and stakeholders of the applications? Their fucking job is to keep track of the status of development and see where everything is to report it back to completion, not tell the developers "how" to do things with no experience of the field at all wtf.

    That dude absolutely blows, fuck him. Stay strong, hope this shit passes soon or you find a better place.
  • 1
    @soull00t hmm..Smells to me like a case of miscommunication. If not for the dangling questions left unanswered, I'd say he's actually got a good grip on what needs to be done, but picked some wording that didn't resonate with you [devs] and couldn't relay his idea to you well enough.

    It's just these dangling questions....

    I definitely know the feeling and desperation/frustration, when you believe you'll need to draw the elderwand again to make it happen, bcz what you heard and understood is not meant to be implemented the muggles-way.

    But give him a benefit of the doubt and keep your mind open. In cases like this I like to blow the steam off [like you did now] and consider I've misunderstood the requirements. And then either ask to rephrase from a different perspective, or prepare a list of topics that seem to require you to have finished an advanced course of defense against the dark magic and approach the PO with that list. And make sure you get all the answers in the list.
  • 3
    "Smells to me like a case of miscommunication"

    well you think?

    "I'd say he's actually got a good grip on what needs to be done"

    no. all he can produce is hot steam with some abstract buzzwords, but whenever we try to go into details, the discussion gets confusing and often leads to nowhere, because he has no real concept. but when you're the PM and PO of a product and also act like god sent you and your technical expertise from heaven, then i fucking expect you to deliver some specific requirements to the team. which he never did. whenever requirements get more specific, they are inconsistent, incomplete, there is no concept of integrating them and it is also not clear how they fit with the overall vision, and also they change from time to time. this sprint, there is this super essential library that i have to implement. the next sprint, fuck this library, now i have to work on this amazing architecture topic, and the next sprint, fuck that too.
  • 4
    "But give him a benefit of the doubt and keep your mind open"

    no, i'm beyond that. i've tried that half a year, and now my patience is gone.
  • 0
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