Answer this questionnaire.

Be 100% honest and real:

1. has a degree helped you learn anything useful?

2. has a degree helped you get a job? not because of knowledge but because of degree?

3. was it worth it going to college to get the degree?

4. do you regret going to college to get your degree?

5. do you believe a degree has value?

6. by the nature of economy, the more something exists in circulation (e.g. money), is it worth less or more?

6.1. if every year there are more and more college degrees in existence, is the value of degree worth less or more?

7. do you believe you are hired to work a job because of your knowledge or your degree?

1. Yes, both applicable stuff like SQL and databased as well as foundational stuff like maths and introductory information theory

2. Kinda, I have a student job so my (non finished) uni degree is part of my job description

3. Yes 100% (was free though, because Germany)

4. Nope

5. Absolutely, to get higher paying jobs

6. More supply for same demand => less valuable

6.1 Depends on the demand, which is generally growing

7. Both: HR hires you because of your degree, technical interviewers, your TL wants you because of your skills

Why are you trying so hard to play down the value of degrees?

@zlice Okay fair enough, probably depends on which country you're in. Here in Germany the IT education I got was actually quite good. We learned SQL, had to build a small web store, learned basics of boolean logic (kv diagram optimization, etc), got taught Java, how to build GUIs with swing, how UML diagrams work and a bunch of other actually useful knowledge. And that's just college (or the equivalent over here), not even university

We also learned greek history but hey, you take what you can get 🤷‍♂️

1. Yes

2. To get? no. But it boosted my salary

3. Yes

4. I regret having to attend basic lectures, like Excel

5. Yes. But not only degree by itself. The process, connections, communication -- all that has more value than the degree itself

6. Depends on demand (i.e. population)

6.1. Depends on demand (job market)

7. Both.

1 Yes

2 Yes

3 Yes, it forced my lazy self to study stuff.

4 No. I regret not taking college more seriously though. Instead of taking 6 classes per semester and nearly failing half of them while getting burnt out and learning little. I would have rather taken my time with 3-4 classes per semester and really learning everything there was to learn.

5 It depends on its provenance. It's no secret that each college is sort of different in its ways. Some private universities around here have a reputation for exchanging money for degrees. Others are known to be more technical but outdated. Others are known for fostering teamwork better than others. You get the idea. A degree at least tells you "this person should have a basic understanding of topics A, B, C at the very least."

6 Are you asking if inflation is real or if college degrees have any value if everyone has one?

6.1 Less. Companies want proven experience.

7 Both. The degree gets me interviews. My knowledge gets me the job.

1. yes

2. because of knowledge received almost exclusively in my uni. Nobody ever looked at my diploma though

3. yes

4. no

5. degree itself is valueless, the knowledge you get may be invaluable

6. are you kidding me?

6.1. you're clearly emotional about this.

7. you repeat yourself, it was question 2

https://devrant.com/rants/6043560/...

this is a story about my degree, my knowledge, my work experience, emergent phenomena, and why precisely I don't believe in “degree vs. self-taught” war

A degree is most useful if you want to go the carreer path in non-small companies or want to delay the actual job stuff a bit. Also, if you want an academic carreer, the degree isn't optional.

@Oktokolo you've been so bright recently, a stark contrast to yourself 7-ish months ago. Congrats!

@kiki I didn't change - you did.

@Oktokolo wait, it actually might be the case. https://devrant.com/rants/5952367/...

peace

@kiki No problem. We are all just trying to be humans.

1. yes

2. yes, or at least a better paying job

3. yes, was fun

4. no

5. lol, no, not by itself

6. is this a trick question? ofc the less rare something is the less valuable it is

6.1. another trick question. objectively the more people have degrees the less special you are by having one... however if a degree is a "standard" then not having out puts you below even the low value of having one... so there's that...

7. I think degree gives you an upper hand, but knowledge is still imperative

@netikras by boosted your salary how do you know that? By how much $ did it boost your salary?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No
5. Yes
6. I don’t think you thought out this question too much. The representation of a degree can not be compared to the representation of a trade in commodity. A degree is a certification and can’t be valued against other things except for similar degree programs. Just because people are getting more and more certified with a degree doesn’t equate to it being any less valuable (unless of course the academic program is getting worse). U see what I’m saying here?
7. A lot of times you are not hired for one factor. They are making an investment in you so they consider all of your past they can gather in an efficient manner to bring into their decision.

@kiki Kiki, you need to stop being on twitter. The last little bit you've been extra hostile to everyone and everything. It would help out your life immensely

@12bitfloat I don’t use twitter and never used it at all. I don’t use social media outside devrant

In my country I can get a whole master's degree (that's five years of higher education) for just under €4000. I guess my degree will cost me around €5000 in total and that's including the new calculator I had to buy, school books, transport and meals.

Some companies won't consider your application if you don't have a degree which is usually fine because it means they probably suck but there are some cool jobs only open to people with a degree like pretty much anything related to the automotive, aeronautical or space industry, critical software, and much more.

There's more to being a software engineer than making websites.

I agree that most people with a degree don't take advantage of it but for those who do it's a great investment (specially in Europe where it's generally either really cheap or free).

I've been a web developer for a couple of years and I really love my job. I have a baby on the way so studying at night pretty much sucks. But I see it as an investment on myself.

@12bitfloat also, no. I merely was fighting back to @scor’s harassment.

The reality of it is, I need medical attention asap but can get neither this nor the meds I need where I live right now. That’s all there is to it.

Question six shows you don't understand how markets work. It takes knowing more than just the supply to understand how valuable something is.

You can get 100k new engineers every year and 150k job openings making engineers more and more valuable.

@kiki Ok wth. How do you not use social media?

I'm sorry if I mischaracterized you but holy hell, the way you act sometimes screams of a twitter user.

I guess then I have nothing to say besides, please look within yourself to fight your fights. I know you haven't had an easy life, and all of us face internal challenges, but I really mean this; It would help you tremendously to become more relaxed and contempt with yourself before trying to find external problems to rally behind

Yes. Tesla sucks, yes fitbit and other corporates suck but you do have to constantly be on the fucking pulse to immediately catch any outrage and project it onto devrant? In a sense that really dehumanizes you. You become nothing more than a propaganda horn. It's not what anyone deserves

@12bitfloat yes, if you’re depressed just be happy, and if you’re homeless just buy a house. I’m always on the fucking pulse because I have no choice. My brain just works like this. My body is twitching constantly, I cannot sleep, I notice smallest imperfections around me, touching a surface that feels wrong can ruin my day, my t-shirt should lay perfectly balanced on my shoulders, with equal weight per shoulder, otherwise my back hurts.

Although I appreciate your sincerity, mental health doesn’t work like that. Trust me, if I had a way of getting more relaxed, I would’ve done it already.

@12bitfloat I don’t care about humanizing myself in the eyes of others. If I would’ve been the last person on devrant, I still would’ve posted just as frequently. I post in several telegram channels with just me in them several times a day. I don’t have a persona. I post whatever I want, and when I post something, I mean it. I am sincere because sincerity is the only way for a person like me to socialize. Autists are bad at constructing social images.

@kiki No, no, I'm no saying to just not be depressed. I'm saying the exact opposite. Don't externalize your own problems onto other issues and build a personality around that. I'm not an asshole, I feel for you. It's just I think that it would really help you to focus on yourself for a bit and come up stronger, instead of trying to tear other people else down

I (think) I understand your situation. But it doesn't change the fact that it would be better for anybody to not constantly be in that confrontation situation. Sometimes we just need rest and need to find ourselves and really think about what we are and what we stand for and what/who we want to be

@12bitfloat I just come as I am. I don’t want to silence myself for conformity. If it’s externalizing, so be it. That’s my personality. I’m fed up with lying to myself about how I feel. When I accepted the truth that my gut feeling was screaming to me and started to say what I meant because I had nothing to lose, my life changed for the better. I will never allow some external thing shape who I am and what I say again, because otherwise the day I will be dying I’ll feel that I lived someone else’s life and not my own, but it’ll be too late.

@kiki I get that, but you need to differantiate your inherent personality with how you act. I have nothing against you, I like you as a persona.

The only thing I'm saying is that it would greatly benefit you if you weren't so easily swayed by things. Does Tesla suck. Yes. Does that mean you have to make it your personal mission to rally against them?

I don't think so, and as long as you do, I will criticize you because even with additional context that's just weird

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. Yes.

4. No. I could've gone to a much better one, but I met my mentor anyway.

5. Yeah but it is not an automatic win condition. If the student sucks, the degree is pointless.

6. Supply and demand applies

6.1 see above

7. Both.

@b2plane I know, because my manager asked me for my diploma to justify the raise, and the boost was arranged for the following month.

How much? Enough to keep me happy. More than my annual raise (in %).

There's a policy (IDK what it's based on) in my country granting a better salary for educated employees. IDK where it's written, whether companies themselves prefer to keep the ones with a diploma, because of reasons (perhaps it's easier to sell our services to clients? IDK), or so the law says (haven't found any article to back this), but that's just how it is. Employees with a diploma tend to get a better salary.

@kiki my mental health advice is to do brutal rigorous exercises during the week and then on the weekends go clubbing all night powered by nothing but designer drugs .

Imagine bragging about Russian degree. Yeah, I can't either ☺

YES
1. Anything other than web/ui dev or simple scripting can mot be learned from youtube, without structured learning. Computer Networks and embedded software courses helped me immensely. A road to degree made me internalize too many different concepts.

Value of degrees might decrease but they are still better than non degree in most fields.

Supply do not have direct relationship to value, demand is also increasing for software devs but a bubble is also coming, soon to burst and eliminate codecamp monkeys.

Go to college and get a degree bro. There are free code camp and udemy courses now but going to college lets you meet new people and make connections with people, also gain knowledge slowly over time.

Some things in programming needs experience; which you won't get from marathoning a 72 hours udemy course.

Also companies will look at you certificates first before calling you and giving you interview and test. If your CV states that you are simply a high school graduate, they won't call you at all even if you declare yourself having 5+ years experience of React JS.

all the points: don't know, i don't have one/haven't been to/etc.

however what i've noticed as a big difference between degreed people and self-learners:

self-learners learn (by themselves)
degreed people sit and wait to be taught.

@12bitfloat essentially what you said is
1. “No, you’re a persona”
2. “You have to be silent more often”
3. “I will write you a comment every time you criticize something telling you to stop”

And all this coated in friendly tone.

Nice.

1. has a degree helped you learn anything useful?

> Yes, having teachers and a structured learning path is way better than looking out myself to learn things.

2. has a degree helped you get a job? not because of knowledge but because of degree?

> Yes, as a junior.

3. was it worth it going to college to get the degree?

> Yes, it's free in my country.

4. do you regret going to college to get your degree?

> Nop.

5. do you believe a degree has value?

> Yes.

6. by the nature of economy, the more something exists in circulation (e.g. money), is it worth less or more?

> Wat?

6.1. if every year there are more and more college degrees in existence, is the value of degree worth less or more?

> No idea.

7. do you believe you are hired to work a job because of your knowledge or your degree?

> Junior: degree / Senior: knowledge

1. yes, but not through availability of resources but because I wouldn't've thought to look up half the stuff if it hadn't been for assignments

2. don't think so

3. probably, it was fun, anyway

4. no. As a working student in Germany, I didn't have to worry about crippling student loan debt though

5. not sure, many employers at least claim they value skill over degrees nowadays

6. what?

6.1. Does a driver's license doesn't lose significance just because more people have one?
Depends on whether you attribute it to the bar being lowered, or education becoming more accessible

7. my current employer would've probably taken any old web dev they could find. I would prefer to be hired for years of experience but I suppose it's easier in an interview to check for a college degree than experience

@kiki I really don't want to drag it out. What I said is you need to be more human and less fake "I'm against this corporation" type person

I never said you have to be more silent. Not once.

I just wish you were more genuine as a human, not as someone who has to "carry the torch"

@12bitfloat re-read my comments. I’m genuine every time. I don’t have a fake persona.

@12bitfloat the mere fact that you and @scor see me as if I was some kind of carefully crafted image is a huge compliment. Imagine, there are more people like me out there, who aren’t mediocre. The chaotic stuff in my head produces what you see. That’s how I live and who I am, and I can’t imagine my life without it. If you don’t understand something, doesn’t mean it can’t exist.

@12bitfloat the bottom line is, if you want me to act “more genuine”, this means you want me to change according to someone else’s standards. This inevitably makes me adjust to the public views, e.g. be less genuine.

I prefer to post raw data from my head instead. It doesn’t get much more genuine than that.