13
awesomeest
231d

Should I be excited or concerned?

Newbie dev(babydev) who just learned string vs int and the word "boolean", is SUPER into data parsing, extrapolation and recursion... without knowing what any of those terms.

2 ½ hrs later. still nothing... assuming he was confused, I set up a 'quick' call...near 3 hrs later I think he got that it was only meant so I could see if/where he didnt understand... not dive into building extensive data arch... hopefully.

So, we need some basic af PHP forms for some public-provided input into a mySQL db. I figured I'd have him look up mySQL variables/fields, teach him a bit about proper db/field setup and give him something to practice on his currently untouched linux container I just set up so he could have a static ipv4 and cli on our new block (yea... he's spoiled, but has no clue).

I asked him to list some traits of X that he thinks could be relevant. Then to essentially briefly explain the logic to deciding/returning the values/how to store in the db... essentially basic conditionals and for loops... which is also quite new to him.

I love databases; I know I'm not in the majority... I assumed he'd get a couple traits in his mind and exhaust himself breaking them down. I was wrong. He was/likely is in his sleep now, over complicating something that was just meant as a basic af.

Fyi, the company is currently weighted towards more autistics (him and myself included) than neurotypicals.

I know I was(still am) extremely abnormal, especially when it comes to things like data.

So, should I be concerned/have him focus elsewhere for a bit?... I dont want to have him burnout before he even gets to installing mySQL

Comments
  • 3
    Can someone explain me how people like that get hired while i get rejected?
  • 8
    @b2plane you post to many shitposts i guess
  • 0
    I think you should be both concerned and excited

    Concerned because he is taking too much time to learn without going in the direction towards achieving said goals. Excited because he wants to learn and not throw away the opportunities he is getting

    I think he will get more matured as time passes by. It is just a matter of time. Hold on tightly and keep moulding him as and when appropriate and necessary. All he needs is some guidance and nudging so to speak
  • 5
    @b2plane sure.

    I hired him because I saw potential.

    He started out completely unaware of my intended outcome and had never seen irl/used a non-android computer. I needed some basic af grunt work done; he did it.

    He got curious wtf I was doing/why I had him do things. I explained, including 'learn this simple stuff if you want more pay/further experience/access to resources'.
    He did.
    I sent some minimal tech to Myanmar (which fyi, huge pain in the ass, and I'm actually professionally well-versed in international logistics)

    Now... Here we are.

    For the record, looking at your posts vs things babydev says/does; you charge in head first, causing issues by engaging in things you don't understand-- no active consideration to basic things like gauging how much data you're pulling. Then you just rage and talk about your feces, as if you couldn't have avoided wasting all that time debugging.

    His issue is trying to fully comprehend everything first; Your's is no initial comprehension.
  • 1
    @asgs while I appreciate the encouragement, my dilemma is more basic. I don't want him going down the endless rabbit-hole of trying to fully define everything... before he gets the experience that teaches how to gauge a logical threshold of effort/time to utility. Essentially, should/when do I stop him from spinning his wheels, burning rubber, staying in place... when it's technically good consideration... just without understanding how to set a logical stop point.

    Like if you tried to compare loaves of sliced bread... and you're getting to the details of the wheat farmers' personal life... sure technically there could be some implications from that... but it's not likely to be a large enough impact to change the resulting extrapolations, even if it was fully trackable with perfect precision.
  • 1
    @jestdotty yeah... the other involved fullstack and I discuss that all the time. He has more a valid frame of reference than I do. We both tend to keep a 'no coddling' policy.
  • 1
    I think giving that many tools and services is cool, but maybe overwhelming, leading him to lose himself in all the options and unknown tech. Why not focus his education on one thing at a time and in the end put all the pieces together?
  • 0
    @possum that's what im trying to do... which is why I haven't given him those tools yet... hes not getting lost in technical aspects, just going down an endless rabbit-hole that he has no idea how to gauge.
  • 0
    @awesomeest Maybe just use the same wheat farmer metaphor you used here to show him what he is potentially doing. I know nothing about his personality though, so it is up to you to gauge how best to package the message you are trying to teach.
  • 0
    @TheSilent tried essentially that... failed. I tried rephrasing the criteria. while in response to another list of newly considering variables, said "...this type of thing, rabbit-hole to infinity, is not helpful or productive"... which I'm hoping worked.

    He sent me his breakdown of a trait... only issue is that he was looking at it from the perspective of the traits of that item, instead of a criterion to gauge/quantify all items.

    I think(hope) he got it... but unfortunately he apparently cut his toe right after that so was getting that taken care of til right now. *fingers crossed* he remembers and understands.

    Silver lining-- at least if I can get this under control, I might have more backend help than I was hoping for... our project is VERY data intensive, and I don't typically like anyone messing with my dbs. But if he's that into it and since he was a clean slate when I hired him(like literally never using an actual computer, even for 5min)... he'd be worth the effort.
  • 2
    @awesomeest PLEASE how much did you pay that retard?? If hes paid more than ME I'm jumping out the fucking window right now!!!! 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
  • 0
    @awesomeest also thats a load of bollocks what you just said. You dont know me. I have to shit just as much as you have to shit. And while im shitting I'll talk about feces. I cant NOT shit if my organism wants to shit. I dont shit out of boredom.

    Now back to that new guy. Hes knows jack shit. How the fuck did he pass a technical interview???? Even for a junior position today is required medior level knowledge and for medior level is required senior knowledge. I pass technical interview and i get rejected for having 8 years of experience instead of 10 for java. When i have 3 years of experience in devops i get rejected for not having 5. How the FUCK can you estimate my knowledge and skills JUST based on the YEARS OF EXPERIENCE? ARE YOU A FUCKING MONGOLOID WITH DOWN SYDROME?

    Someone can work for 15 years and be a boomer who learned 1 tech and never learned anything again (like ALL college professors in the world) and he's now more experienced than me who excelled within 3 yrs? Gtfo
  • 1
    @b2plane

    Dude... 1st off, he's clearly more intelligent than you.

    2nd, I'd be a shitty employer if I answered every random A-hole asking for details of their employment.

    3rd, Aside from necessity, money shouldn't mean more to you than what you're actually doing... at least imo, and the opinions of people I respect/tolerate enough to work with.

    4th- I know your vocabulary is limited, but, you should really try to use legitimate terminology. "Retard" would be a retarded, delayed or slowly developing, person or trait.

    He is 21, never spoke to a native English speaker til 2 yrs ago, never used, nor seen someone use, any non-android computer til about 1½yrs ao and has had one to use for less than 1yr.
    He now knows a lot of HTML/CSS, a few lines of js, more cmd & linux cli than the majority of Ubuntu fans, basic SSH & enough py for a simple discord bot.
    Oh!, and MUCH higher English vocab than you.

    So, how much have you grown in the year? Or are you simply, literally retarded?
  • 0
    @awesomeest hes gonna bankrupt ur shitty business and its gonna be your fault for being a shit boss hiring shit employees. When i hire my employees I'll be the boss of your worst fucking hellhole nightmares. I'll be brutal and cutthroat just like every other company was towards me who fucked with my time. 5+ weeks of interviews just to get rejected. Thats exactly how I'll treat people and that way filter the skilless developers like the one you hired. I want work done and not hold someones hand
  • 1
    @b2plane
    I'd find it hard to believe that none of your personality or tendencies displayed here carry into interview or employment-- reeeeally hard.

    I didn't give him, or anyone, a technical interview. I have odd hiring practices, but as the majority of my publicly listed exp. is in Business Consulting (internationally), I'm, frankly, an expert in that field.

    Simply put, for most positions, idgaf if you have exp or a wall full of Master's Degrees; I care if they're engaged, teachable and I can tolerate them for the time I'd need to. Innate ability is a big plus, esp. in any "engineering".

    - Idk what 'organism" you have, but I'd get that checked out.

    - As a testament to your quality employability, in all caps, you tried to insult me/my intellect not knowing it's "Downs"; it's also a dumb insult.

    - If you're excelling so much, why don't you have a decent job?

    - FYI: Many companies ref their posted reqs, when possible, as reason for turning someone down-- regardless of why.
  • 0
    @awesomeest i dont have a decent job because these companies today have unrealistic requirements. Every time i learn something new it appears as if its not enough. If i learn 2 new tech now i get rejected for not knowing 4 new tech. I learn 4 new tech i get rejected for not knowing 8 new tech. I learn 16 new tech i get rejected for not knowing 32 new tech. It's fucking ridiculous. No matter how much i progress and excel these shitfucks will always cling on my 3 years of devops experience. A recruiter yesterday literally told me even if i prove them i have the knowledge they require, even if i showcase that im the best out of all of their devops employees, they still wouldnt hire me because their client has strict requirements that i have to have 5+ years of devops experience. Fucking absurd. If you give me any devops task to complete on my own I'll guarantee I'll figure it out and complete it. If you do the same for your new guy do you think he'll complete it?
  • 0
    @b2plane
    You vs my babydev...
    Aside from wondering why you're so intent on competing with a 21yr old...
    Sry, I've already recently discovered a ring of the Inferno that Dante forgot.

    Your employability...
    - If you want entertain the idea that there's a chance that you're getting turned away for a reason other than one that any business not to be sued would be comfortable listing... good luck.

    If you're so adept, why don't you simply engineer/dev something and sell it? You clearly have the time.
  • 0
    In any case, i have realized that no company respects or appreciates my hard work. That is why im aiming to shift towards the business side from dev side. This will take time. And ironically to achieve that i have to be a really good dev so i can build the proper software as my one way out ticket out of slave realm and straight into business realm. Switching sides. Cant wait to treat people as slaves by being on a superior higher level, the businessman CEO. I was never like this initially until i got treated badly for no reason. Someone has to pay this price and the only one to pay are the next groups of innocent devs

    Also. Although i dont know everything (just like every developer doesnt know everything even the seniors), i AM willing to learn and adapt on the job. It's impossible to learn everything. But its possible to learn what you dont know while you work on a project. This is what i repeat all the time but no one seems to give a shit. So be it. I'll also not give a shit as CEO
  • 0
    @b2plane
    Forgot one thing:

    I, and many people I know, in many fields, gain jobs without fitting the specified criterion... but that's marketable traits and/or ability that offsets those reqs. References and character also a big part of it.
  • 0
    @awesomeest my character is beyond patient. If you think a bad character has 5+ weeks of patience just to get fucked with interviews and then rejected (at minimum 3-4 weeks of interviews for every company), think again. If these companies can exploit my time for free slave labor within those 3-5 or more weeks and thats considered as normal, i have full right to rebel and either fuck them off and call them out or start my own business and treat new employees EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. What are you gonna do? Call me out? If you call me out then you'll have to call out EVERY company in the world. I guess thats how business works. And if thats considered as normal so be it.
  • 0
    @b2plane

    You apparently don't even know what character is.

    Build a company. I'll fully support it by selling the tickets and popcorn.
  • 0
    @awesomeest im not trying to compete with ur babydev and frankly i couldnt give less shit if hes 21 or 48 or 92 years old. No company in my city would ever look to hire me when i was 21. I had to first finish college at minimum 23 to be able to get an internship, and then at 24 25 26+ thats when they fuck with your time for weeks or offer you a job once in 400 days. Its mad disrespectful and annoying.
  • 0
    @awesomeest also i am building my own company on the side. And also a side project. As i accept the disrespectful $3.75 up to $8.125 an hour usd backend, frontend, devops Linux system administration job (4 in 1 job), building my business on the side is the only thing making me move forward
  • 0
    @b2plane
    1. He's not in my city, nor are any of my employees. The couple irl ones are part-time and drive about 30min.

    2. How would you know if companies would hire *someone* aside from you? Especially when you don't even entertain the notion that their issue may have nothing to do with your CV?

    3. If you're a dev... and its 2023... how do you not realise their are SIGNIFICANTLY more remote positions than cubicle-based?
  • 2
    @b2plane hey guy, I think part of your problem is you assume the rejection letter they give you is honest. They hire people with 3 years experience for 10 years experience job posts all the time. They say that in rejection communications as an excuse; it isn't real. That's not the actual problem. It is just a way for them to justify their rejection and get the outcome they want but why they wanted that outcome is more than likely something completely different
  • 0
    @jestdotty no... if I answered random A-holes like b2plane about specifics of an employee
  • 0
    @jestdotty i intentionally used the word retarded cause i had the need to describe it in a hardcore insulting manner due to the situation and description of the babydev the OP described.

    I have never seen a babydev like that even at 21 years old, as if he never ever touched code in his 21 years of life, didnt even graduate with computer science degree, never made his own side project AND STILL got a job... That's fucking disrespectful and disgusting towards ME who did achieve all that and has more knowledge than the babydev due to self hardcore learning and continuous improvement.

    Also my mind thinks faster than i can talk or write. I have 5 sentences ready to say in my mind and want to say them all at once but its physically impossible so i have to cut the bullshit short while memorizing 5 sentences up front and in this process I'll make grammatical errors, for which i dont give a fuck
  • 0
    And frankly, if i ever had to work with someone who is THAT much inexperienced, someone who never coded his own project in 21 years, I'd lose my fucking mind. I'd quit because thats proof the company is bullshit and doesnt follow strict hiring procedures. If i was enforced to know WAY more than what a senior has to know, if i was forced to meet the Google-Level-Engineer of knowledge, but someone else who hasnt written a fucking code in his life gets hired, that is DISRESPECTFUL AND A BULLSHIT SHIT COMPANY
  • 0
    @jestdotty

    I'm well aware that b2plane isn't a native english speaker, neither is the Burmese kid I was comparing him to.

    I know several languages. In any language, native or otherwise, vocabulary is built from experiences(often mainly interpersonal encouters/convos), information consumed(media) and your reaction to your own ignorance(like if you don't know a word so act defensivelytsubstitute blanket terminology vs looking it up).

    Where are you getting your info on autism???
    Autism is NOT stunted growth. It has also been proven to not have any negative implications on intelligence or, innately, any form of growth.
    The main factor, that ignorant people, like you, often assume is something like retardation, is rel to social interaction.

    Autisic people, from Greek "autos", innately, don't consider people around them the same as neurotypicals do. We simply start in our own bubble; changing that is explicit.

    We innately think differently; only a bigot would propagate those lies.
  • 0
    @jestdotty no clue what you're referring to with that question...
    That said, as simply "better" is totally subjective, I think most people would think they'd make it "better".
  • 0
    @b2plane
    You keep talking about disrepect towards you, based on other people's circumstances. That's asinine.

    Respect is earned, and only relevant if it actually relates to you.

    Also, as explained, I didn't hire him as a dev, though I certainly was hoping I was right about his potential. Turns out I was.
  • 0
    @awesomeest so someone who hasnt written a code or project in his 21 years of life, didnt graduate with a computer science degree and knows jackshit like a goofball has earned more respect to get hired than me who actually knows to get shit done, has computer science degree and is willing to learn anything i dont know? LMaooo
  • 0
    I have

    Let me check

    74 github repositories as of today (19 are public) and counting. You can see my skill level right there. You can see how well i write code. You can see what i know and what i can do solely based off my github. What does your goofball have that can show off during interview? What did he do to earn such huge respect?

    Frankly if you are a good businessman you would know nobody cares about respect or honesty in business. Businessmen want shit done so they can get money. Successful Businessman only cares about money, not about people. He doesnt even need to earn anyones respect to be hired. Thats no different than a nice guy complaining why he cant get laid. Girls dont like nice guys for being goofballs and that guy is no different but in business/career world.

    If someone was arrogant but respectful after proving he can get shit done I'd hire him over someone who want me to hire him out of sheer earning through respect
  • 2
    @b2plane this person just hires people who look like them because they have a high desire for narcissism, in this instance
  • 3
    @b2plane I had ~80 repos and went to an interview and the guy said I had too many repos 🤣

    But again, I don't believe he rejected me for the random negging he was doing

    If someone feels ashamed of themselves they will insult others to hide their own incompetence; after all, if he can get me to hide my repositories then he looks better now!
  • 0
    @jestdotty ignorant of what exactly? I've been aware that people like you, mislabelling a difference in other people as a negative trait, often citing outdated and/or refuted with factual evidence, exist for most of my life.

    FYI- I don't mean the above in relation to any experience aimed at me. I was diagnosed as an adult, because my friends had already realised it so I was curious. I can, and did, mask extremely well. They also certainly weren't considering autism, especially 25yrs ago in a small catholic school. They did, however, try to move me up grades numerous times. I declined, citing "I can't turn 18 any faster" as the main reason.

    Also, I'm not specifically proud of having autism or a really high IQ... just as I think it would be asinine to be proud of having blue eyes, my height or any other genetic trait. That said, I'm certainly glad I don't knowingly, or negligibly, propagate misinformation then pretend it's not factually disputed.
  • 0
    @b2plane
    Clearly you've never dealt with large asian companies.

    I'm not a businessman, and frankly I don't even use the label of businesswoman except when literally necessary. I am, however, successful, many times over.

    You, and most people, including most businesses, have a major blindspot. Success, making money, etc., is more effective and sustainable if you do factor those things in. For example, if you can spot talent and where you could likely spark some interest, before someone spends extreme amounts of time and money on a degree that doesn't mean much in practical engineering anyways... well you can have an employee that has learned a specialised skillset tailored to your reqs, theyd be making more money than theyd expected ever making before you hired them, know the inner-workings of your business and industry, be cheaper yet more effective long-term than a rando with a degree and also have a sense of pride and loyalty in it all. That's pure gold.
  • 0
    @jestdotty
    People who look like me??? I never actually thought of this until now but apparently it's the opposite of your comment. I'm 31, female, short blonde hair, typically with the lower layer dyed blue, overweight and facial piercings.
    Currently, I'm the only female, and no one that works for or with me has any of those traits... unless you count a septum piercing that may have not closed in years of no use, other dev.

    If you're referring to some other visual trait, I'd certainly be curious to know what you think it is.

    As for the narcissist ref., I've certainly heard it before. In fact, I even asked the last two psych professionals I encountered (most health insurance reqs a psych eval for Spinal Cord Stimulator implants; I have a physical handicap). One said it's not Narcissism if it's direct fact; the other said it's dependent on if someone is stating acclaim specifically for their ego. 2nd also said I'm likely too focused on literal aspects to be concerned with my ego.
  • 0
    @jestdotty he was probably like (in his head) DAMMIT a woman who codes like this??? Can’t have that on my team! She’ll take my spot.
  • 0
    @jestdotty i missed this post (elitist/wanting some clone)

    People not touching me DBs has nothing to do with their competence. I cant go into too much detail but the rationale for that is simple. It's the root of the new tech we are building, which is currently mostly in my head. Yeah, i totally need to take the time to document things for internal purposes, but it's a start-up engaging in tasks much larger than should be logical. I dont want a clone of me, not even just on the DB side. Knowing how someone thinks though... that's priceless.

    For example, the other dev who joined me is skilled af, i genuinely respect him as a person and a dev (rare tbh), i know where he's more likely to have better insight than me and which way we both lean towards when a certain topic is broached. I can ask him for advice to find holes in my thinking or as a baseline for my current thoughts, and he can do the same. We both are chronic over-engineerers as well... why i brought babydev question here.
  • 0
    @jestdotty im curious as to what youd think the benefit is to having someone who thinks exactly like you on any team would be?

    Personally, I've advised several companies against that type of mentality. I firmly believe that it adds an exponent to oversights and issues in general, while restricting growth. I've tutored, mentored, advised, etc., quite a few people, from individuals back in my school years to businesses that have existed longer than I have... and I've been genuinely surprised by some of the asinine things I've seen (some crap that makes the 'cup holder' CD-ROM drive seem wise)... but without those perspectives, I dont think I'd have much valid insight to anything outside my own austistic af logic.

    Honestly, the most amusement and brain flexing I get is from the remarkable 'how the fuck...?'s I've encountered. Like via GUI remote access, somehow, a newb managed to set eno1(rhel9's eth0) to the profile of eno2, and eno2 to eno1. I still don't know how that was possible.
  • 0
    @jestdotty oh, another great discovery I'd have never thought of... a discord bot I was getting ready for testing, converted emojis to their numeric code on input. The prompt from the bot was asking for "Number of Reactions". I had it set to loop back if it wasnt an int between 2 and 10. Since I wanted a way to override it, unadvertised, I made it so if you put the exact same, out if range, int in the 2nd time it just accepted it. The someone put an eggplant emoji in... the same eggplant emoji the 2nd time (not even trying to be a dick... well at least towards the bot process). So it accepted the input since technically, from the set order of conversion, it was an int... the same int twice. As ridiculous as that was, I'm sure it saved me tons of annoyance later on.
  • 0
    @jestdotty i am so confused by that response.
    I don't need(or want) anyone to think up anything for me. Im just really curious what you think the benefit, or perceived benefit, would be to having a static copy of one's methodology would be.

    I have no clue where you're getting "dishonesty" from. I am also totally lost on the compass/spirit thing too.
  • 0
    Take it easy, man. You're crying and shouting at the owner of a football team who saw potential in a kid with talents but zero experience, who is going to be a good player for the team in the future, and then she hired or offered a contract. While you are complaining about how much experience and skills you have, but you don't fit in the team or the owner didn't choose you. Easy man. I am still in the academy, preparing for the field.
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