😑😑😑

Some wishful thinking right there

I always saw it as sarcasm

@PerfectAsshole yeah same, @dfox

Dude, php is not what the collective people that have never used it would have you believe it is. In all the years I have used it I've had 0 problems.

Can't complain so far 😊

@AleCx04 My only problem with php is the sorry ass caliber of developer it attracts.

@AleCx04 i never had any issues with php either

I mean ive written like 50 lines of code alltogether but still.

@BindView well shit haha that counts :P

@PerfectAsshole ain't gon deny that man. Shit really gets bad on that area.

@PerfectAsshole
this is unfortunately the real down side to PHP, it’s easy and fast to work with, but it draws in the lazy ass devs who don’t think ahead of the next keystroke and produce a real crock of shit.

@iamgio
What’s wrong with devRant being built on PHP? Just goes to show even then “worst” languages and produce great things.

@dfox
Why did you use PHP?

@C0D4 probably because @dfox and @trogus can't afford yet 50 Petabyte of server storage for node files.

This php bashing party is getting old. Every language has shit developers get over it.

@jschmold what about it?

I honestly don't like PHP (though I like Perl), but blaming a language for programmers not knowing it properly is not all that clever.

Yeah, I see the criticism of "==", but seriously if you know the language it's a non-issue. This also applies to most criticism (not saying to all).

I still don't understand the hate over PHP? I personally like it. Now go ahead and kill me, haters. My opinion remains constant.

@Michelle it's the bandwagon effect. People just like to hate it, because it is what everyone else seems to do. And noone dares to break the norm. I'm sure there is someone out there with an legitimate greif against php that have actually tried it. But i don't think it's that many people to be honest.

@Pavr I hate PHP, well no I hate what a lot of stupid people do with it would be more correct.

The language it’s self isn’t as bad as it is perceived to be in the right hands, but unlike c# / java it doesn’t enforce any principles or standards at the compilation level, which makes for sloppy code really easily.

Now excuse me while I go build a Scratch game “prepares for the Scratch bashing”

We use PHP, because like I’ve said before, I think it’s a great language. I’ve also used it professionally for years now in extremely high-scale environments and enterprise systems, and like it says there, I’ve never had a problem where PHP was the bottleneck or some kind of major blocker. And performance has always been great with little attention needing to be paid to keeping PHP or the webserver (whether Nginx now or Apache back in the day) running efficiently.

I agree completely with @Pavr and @ac1235. Every single language, including PHP, has shitty developers who use it and write shitty code with it. And guess what? I don’t care because I never have to work with those developers. I’d never look for employment at a company that hires shitty developers and if we ever got to the point where we could hire for devRant, I’d only hire good PHP developers.

So to me, I think it’s specific situations and companies that force you to work with really bad code and really bad developers; not the language like PHP itself.

Also, people who have used PHP years ago and not since really shouldn’t comment on the quality of the language. It’s the equivalent of someone else commenting on a version of a language from years ago. Every language gets better. Many might not remember, but Node had lots of scaling issues and major problems when it first came out.

@JoshBent LOL! But in all seriousness, that’s a basic example I always give when people ask why I like PHP. I love how PHP has a lot of functions specifically built for the web already built in. Node/Express require packages to do the most basic things and it’s pretty annoying IMO. And Composer is just as good, if not better than NPM for when you want external packages/services in PHP.

And the argument of PHP not having good frameworks is also not valid anymore. Larvel is good, Slim is awesome, and there’s lots of others.

@C0D4 sounds like you just hate bad developers

Tools are overrated. The person handling the tool is so much more important to getting the job done well than the tools used.

@Pavr I don’t hate bad developers, just ones that would rather write shit over writing something maintainable the first time.

I’ve dealt with a lot of shit projects over the years and they all have one think in common, a complete and utter mess that in no way could have possibly made sense the day it was written, but in saying that, when there are heavy deadlines and a lack of time available to refactor / clean up and organise the mess things go badly as well ( this isn’t language specific )

Also, just to debunk one theory here - I’d be shocked if anyone can find a language that enforces principles to any kind of extent that you can’t write shitty code or even to where it makes it semi-difficult to write shitty code.

I can 100% confirm that you can write really shitty, perfectly working code in Java because I’ve done it numerous times and some of that shitty code is running right now as you use devRant. And yes, by all metrics, I’m a shitty Java developer :)

@dfox java? I thought titanium is js?

@JoshBent I think it's like react native where you can have native code extensions

@JoshBent you can write Neo4j server extensions in Java and we use one for algo sort.

@dfox ahh, I see, thanks

@dfox I've written a relatively large commercial web application in Haskell (yesod framework). It enforces non-shitty code.

It also makes development very tedious and slow when all your routes must be type safe, and every database operation is covered in 6 layers of monads with mandatory validation and exception handling. It's so safe that you don't need 4xx or 5xx error pages, every possible situation is caught and encoded in types.

PHP, Python and Ruby are fast prototyping languages. They are flexible, and allow you to skip certain checks. This results in a "stable enough" web application with agility as its best feature.

I think the biggest drawback of those 3 is how Laravel, Django and Rails all fell for the active record style ORM as their default, which makes it hard to scale your application as it introduces significant query inefficiencies and tends to break a lot of safety principles to accommodate laziness.

With neo4j, you probably don't run into that problem.

@dfox You can't have shitty indentation in python!

@jschmold not a big fan of Laravel, I can't really defend it since I've had to work woth it before and did not quite like it. I prefer microframeworks like Slim when working with Php :D

Go won't let you fuck up because it's like my first programming language in the way it behaves.

@bittersweet Haskell doesn't enforce non-shitty code either. I know some pretty shitty Haskell devs. I also know some great ones.

Btw, in my experience Haskell is an awesome prototyping language if you need to be fast-moving.

@jschmold silex is pretty cool as well and Lumen since it is built on Laravel without the gian mammoth that Laravel is. Also, phalcon is definitely worth given a spin :)