There are too much Japanese on this site. There is such thing as too diverse. The Japanese on this site do not respect our wholesome dev culture.

make devrant great again

given the fact that there are fewer japanese people here than dutch people, i'd say that "too many dutch" is a higher priority problem - and one you could do something about.

@tosensei yeah, but the irony is that you're German, those are really a lot here. Amazing, since devRant became a kind of humor site regarding tech. There's not much serious about it :P Germans became fun? :P

@retoor who is Japanese here?
You can‘t trust trolls like kanyewest to tell the truth.

@Lensflare i mean him indeed, but i doubt indeed if he's japanese, he doesn't really match my expectation of a japanese. I do not have comparison material tbh.

Same for jews, i only know one. devRant doesn't have enough jews! :P

@retoor the key difference being that i continuously don't give a shit about the place i was randomly born into.

to borrow a pathetic phrase: i'm a citizen of the world.

@tosensei that's very German and very stupid. You know you are brainwashed into that right? Because of the war thingy? As German, you have much to be proud about and it's only logic to vouch for people LIKE you. Whatever you want, whatever you say, you'll always feel closer with more germans than something else. Becasue you ARE German.

What you just said is just stupid, you're not a citizen of the world, you wish. You know nothing about the the world like everyone else.

@retoor well, I didn't do anything to be born german.

so - where is the thing I can be proud of?

the only people who have any right to be proud of the country they live in are immigrants, because they did something to be citizens there.

everything else is not pride, but vanity.

also, looking at the current state of germany, there isn't even anything to be vain about. germany is devolving to a far-right shithole. again.

oh, and no - i do not feel close to anybody who considers themselves "german" first and "human" second.

but maybe that's just me - maybe it's just a "smart people" thing to not give a crap about some arbitrary lines on a map, especially if they hold no cultural significance. (culturally, the netherlands and austria have more in common than friesland and bavaria, for example.)

@tosensei what do you mean 'again'? The nazi's were socialists. Far right got sticked to them later. Far right is a a very fluid term.

And i 100% agree that there is no reason to be proud of where you are born, far from it. That could be the luckiest or worst thing ever happening to you do not have control over. But I do think that Dutch are the one of the best people in the world because they do everything like i would do it - because I'm Dutch! I share all values. How would it be possible to think something else? I'm trained the Dutch ways since i'm was a baby.

Being a citizen is not only something on a paper, it is your values as well. You and Lensflare have high ethical value in common, which is very german :P (Besides that, you two are very different) And the reason that I think that's ethical is because i'm a swamp German and for 80% the same in vaues but I laugh a bit more :P

"The nazi's were socialists." - that's a revisionist narrative only used by current day nazis.

even back in the day, only the dumbest of the dumbest actually believed the "socialist" part of "national socialist". and absolutely nothing of their economical policies could be described as "socialist" without outright lying.

they were far right authoritarian back then, and always have been.

also: no. the ethical values i have are completely and utterly derived from the golden rule and pure logic.

and the reason you believe this is ethical is basically because you just swallowed what you were taught without actually thinking about it. by your very own statement, if you were born in nazi germany, you'd probably have been among the loudest demanding the jews to be exterminated.

@retoor also: please explain why the NSDAP, if they were actually socialists, would intern and kill any and all socialists and communists they could find.

which they did do.

and even if your completely inane claim of "the NSDAP being left" were true, this would just swap signs and make the AFD "left" in exactly the same way for exactly the same reason. and nothing would have changed, at all, except that historic facts would'cve been confused to the point of being utterly meaningless.

but keep drinking the neo-nazis revisionist koolaid, if you want.

@tosensei it's not that black and white: @chatgpt Where the nazi's socialists?

@retoor
The term "Nazi" is short for the National Socialist German Workers' Party, but their ideology and actions were far from socialist. While they did incorporate some socialist policies, such as public works programs, their ultimate goal was to establish a fascist dictatorship based on nationalism, racism, and militarism. So, while they did have elements of socialism in their platform, they were ultimately a far-right, authoritarian regime.

@retoor so your argument is "they were socialist because their policies contained trace amounts of policies that could be described as socialist"?

by that "logic" you could call anything anything. by that "logic", you could describe the jehovas witnessess as "atheist".

@antigermgerm please summarize this conversation like you're an LLM and add a conclusion to it :P

We can't have discussions like this without @antigermanist. It would be rude.

Also, he's on your side regarding this I guess :P

@tosensei it’s not just you. I agree that feeling pride or patriotism is dumb.

It’s similar to football fans feeling pride for their club, even if they didn’t contribute anything to its success.

It doesn‘t really matter if you are German by chance or by choice. Or any other nationality.
I‘m saying it as an immigrant myself.

@tosensei well, actually yes. Take Trump calling coal clean. Coal is not, not per definition. But he still calls it that way. Yes you can, you can call things everything. It's just how it is. And when you realize that - you won't be a idiot by blind believing what some popular institutes or 'experts' say. You start to think for yourself more. I never pick sides, i just reason.

Saying you're a world citizen is for example something you did not think a second about. Not ONE :) You're so German, there's a picture of you in the dictionary under it. But that's ok right? Being non nationalist is very mainstream German.

That was were this conversation was originally about :P

@Lensflare it doesn't matter at all indeed, but cultural, you are SOMETHING :) Everything, but not a world citizen.

@retoor "You're so German, there's a picture of you in the dictionary under it" can we please invent a time machine and meet up in the middle ages?

i have a very strong urge to slap you with steel gloves and challenge you to a duel for this insult.

@tosensei how can that be an insult? What is wrong with you? :P

@tosensei I literally thought that we're finally bonding in a good discussion we both enjoy. I do at least :)

@retoor "what's wrong" is that i have, indeed, a decent understanding of german history, and contemporary german "culture".

and based on this, every sane person would've welcomed it if, after WW2, germany would have been completely disbanded.

@tosensei I'm not the only one that things that German should move on now. It happened a long time ago. But you got so brainwashed in your head that you're the worst people ever. You were for a period, so what? Move on. That whole generation is almost dead. I don't give a fuck about what my ancestors did. It would be totally irrational.

@tosensei ironic, i'm a bigger fan of Germans than you are :P The essence of German for me is efficiency. That's why I can not ever imagine German being something bad.

@retoor i don't give a fuck about what my ancestors did, either.

that's my whole fucking point.

but i do give a fuck about what the other descendants of those ancestors are doing right now, which is "exactly the same fucking shit again because nobody fucking learned a fucking thing from the past".

also, germans aren't even "one people". germany began as a bunch of wildly different peoples that only shared some similiarity in their language.

@tosensei that's true. Language bonds us a lot!

And what about repeating shit - for me it was covid - i saw history repeating there! Everyone hating one specific group (the not vaccinated, why some had good reasons and as owner of own body, every choice is correct). It was a real dark time.

@retoor a very few had real reasons, the majority was just "THEY say it's the best option, but THEY are always wrong, so NO i won't, and anyway, the scientists only lie anyway!"

stupidity and lack of understanding are no valid reason for _any_ decision.

but you are mistaken. nobody hated them. especially not for what they _were_ - not for things they could not change.

they were only ridiculed for their stupid, uninformed decision, and for the bullshit that some of them were shouting (like "all vaccinated people will be dead in a year) and that none of them distanced themselves from.

if you behave like a complete moron, don't be surprised if you're treated like a complete moron.

@tosensei

> if you behave like a complete moron, don't be surprised if you're treated like a complete moron.

Exactly. This principle should be applied to everyone, regardless of religion, political views, gender or sexual orientation.
The world would be a better place.

Instead the world is demanding everyone to have respect for everyone.

@Lensflare (non-toxic) patriotism does make you want to improve your country, though.

I'm not a sports-ball fan, but saying the fans don't contribute anything is a bit simplistic. Those players need to get their millions somehow

@tosensei

> but you are mistaken. nobody hated them. especially not for what they _were_ - not for things they could not change.

That cuts both ways though, there were also people saying everyone must get vaxed, or they will kill us all and eventually (and predictably) covid just became weaker over time

Also, there were definitely people who hated people who objected and who just don't agree with mainstream X - in a lot of countries you could get locked up just for asking questions around it, even professionals in the field,

@BordedDev

> (non-toxic) patriotism does make you want to improve your country, though.

Maybe, but definitely not always and even then, wanting to improve the country doesn‘t mean actually improving the country.

> but saying the fans don't contribute anything is a bit simplistic. Those players need to get their millions somehow

Throwing money at a sports club shouldn‘t contribute to their success.
If it did, it wouldn‘t be about sports but about money.
And can you really be proud about your favorite club's success if it comes from the money that you give them?
I doubt it. And that‘s not what I meant when I was talking about pride.

@Lensflare

> Maybe, but definitely not always and even then, wanting to improve the country doesn‘t mean actually improving the country.

Agreed, I'm just saying patriotism isn't bad, there are things I hate about the countries I'm part of and want it to improve. Some would call that patriotic (you can be patriotic to a country you're not born in IMO), but I just want a better env.

>Throwing money at a sports club shouldn‘t contribute to their success.

>If it did, it wouldn‘t be about sports but about money.

Training equipment, coaches, dietitians to name a few - those cost money, and they make a ginormous difference. So yes it's about the money

@Lensflare they literally buy their players with money, hence, they kinda buy the game almost :p It's about money :p At least football for sure is.

@tosensei wow wow, hate is actually the perfect word. For the first time I had something that I couldn't tell to anyone without being cancelled. I just didn't vaccinate bevause you still spread if you do (so doing it for others is not true), I was 30 with good health, I did not want to risk on a medicine created in a race among a few companies. That risk was bigger than getting it I assumed and I was right. I was 100% informed as much as they did and based on that I chose not to. And now I was called an egoist even while I donate more to charity than most people. I don't need a crisis to be social. THEY were the ones not rational. So much shit, so much hate, I felt that I didn't belong anymore. And it's easy talking if you stood on other side. They would've voted for forced vaccination if they could.

@retoor the less it makes sense as a fan to be proud of their achievements.

My point isn‘t about if it is about money or if money helps, but it‘s about how dumb it is to be proud of something based on how much money you throw at it, even though it‘s some sport, which shouldn’t be about money in the first place.

@tosensei that not everyone dropped dead by vaccination is dumb luck. But I didn't vaccinate and did not get the virus, hence, I choose right. I didn't take the vaccine risk and covid wasn't a risk for me to begin with.

But dude, it was 100% pure hate. Most people were scared to admit they prefer to be not vaccinated bevause it was popular opinion that not vaccinated are dumb. And since intelligence is everything we care about since it's not about who is the strongest monkey, nobody wants to have a dumb reputation. We were labeled, by the media. I did not believe any conspiracy theories. I judged on the same information as everyone who injected themselves for nothing with a risk. I don't gamble. When the majority is gonna decide that every one has to put the same stuff in body, it I'll be our instinction some day. One day it will go wrong. I don't go into details how the vac works and risks bevause we both ain't experts on that.

@Lensflare that's 100% true, maybe bring proud to have choosen for the right club or smth. But normally you're vouching for some club in the neighborhood. So, meh :p

Will this be the biggest political but constructive debate on dR? Will the contributors keep respectful? Who knows! Scroll down for more! 😁 Will we know at the end if there are too much Japanese on devRant in a rational way?

I really like this discussion. Normally it escalates.

@retoor jeez, it‘s "many", not "much"! Why do you have to summon my inner grammar nazi? 😂

Unless you refer to Japanese as a homogeneous sauce, made by putting many Japanese people into a blender.

@Lensflare It's not wrong grammar, it's a culture difference. It's not English at all, not even trying that. It's just retoorded language. If I would've said many, that's so wrong in retoorded language that other retoors would think I'm retoorded.

Nazi? What a choice of words in this discussion :p

@retoor "I just didn't vaccinate bevause you still spread if you do (so doing it for others is not true)"

you do realise that you still spread, yes, but you spread LESS? far, far, far less?

that logic is like "i removed the airbags from my car, because you still get hurt when you drive against a big rock"

"But I didn't vaccinate and did not get the virus, hence, I choose right" - same bullshit-"logic".

imagine you have the choice to play russian roulette, or not play. without any consequences except the nature of the game.

imagine you choose to play, you get lucky and survive - would you still say it was "the right choice"?

it's all just a big numbers game. all just statistics. you can win or lose either way. it's just that one option you can take gives you better chances to win.

@tosensei I didn't play the Russian roulette by not taking the vaccine. Covid would've been not lethal to me so that wouldn't be a roulette game.

That's narrative 9000, that you would spread far and far less. Rationally you would've already zoomed out before that statement and realize they don't know shit at all.

It's a numbers game indeed, but not only that, there are a lot of factors like other experiences in your life giving weights to those numbers. And my life experience weights transformed it to smth not to worry about. It's also called your guts or instinct. But that's very very forbidden by the npc's. IT MUST BE ON INTERNET OR IT'S NOT TRUE OR VALID. Aka, you trust someone else more than yourself. Good way to live. I'm the opposite of a LLM.

@retoor "Covid would've been not lethal to me" - so you can predict the future, eh?

@tosensei I'm 30 years old and healthy like a fish in a bowl, young man. Yes, I could predict that I would've survived it.

@retoor If we'd put trust in instinct above all as you suggest, we‘d still believe in a flat earth, because the globe goes against our instincts.

@retoor well, i was 30 and healthy when covid hit me - before any vaccinations were available - and i'm still experience significant health issues since that day.

also: no, you could _not_ predict that you would've survived it - only that your chances of survival (regardless of long-term damage) are very high.

@retoor to really gain knowlegde, rather than delusional believe, we have to trust others. You can‘t come up with knowledge of everything by yourself and your instincts alone.

@Lensflare that's too black white dude. Edit: for both comments. I didn't learn programming by reading the Donald Duck. But with C knowledge i can assume a lot of shit about certain software how it works and stuff. So thanks K&R, your job is done, now i move on :P I'm not interested in their opinion about anything else. They aint heroes. And their statements are possible to check. Is not the same for health stuff.

@tosensei well, i did predict it using my weights and I did well! :) Long live the weights! :)

A nice summary about this discussion by snek chat :P

Edit: bit sad that it calls me retoore.

@retoor In certain places they did just indirectly, e.g. If you were medical for instance they could require it, I can't remember what country though. Some places made it the one piece of medical employers were allowed to ask as well

@retoor some chicks on devrent are Jewish. I appear to have pissed them off before. but I forgot if it was one user or multiple and I forgot the username

otherwise soldier of code, and chances are a lot of dudes are secretly Jewish and just don't make it their self identity. I'd say if you say something anti Jewish, but make it sound more conservative and not like a troll, you'd quickly get to find out. cuz I think I just mentioned genocide bad. hm then again ostream doesn't get any engagement. not sure why I did that one time. can't remember now. my cake experiment went horribly wrong so brain degraded some

@tosensei ok globalist who attacked a person who was on your side about alexanderr being not welcome on this platform

so much stupid

@tosensei being proud of where you are born is like being grateful that your friend gave a shit about you

you didn't deserve it but you should show some respect or you'll soon find out what it will be like without them

if you go to other countries you'll see people don't think like you. I'm an immigrant estranged from my genetics & especially the older I get the more sentimental I get about a culture I never really knew. they just think like me, process emotions like me, the way they do things seems far more logical to me. it just "feels like home", because it feels "familiar" even though I've never been. it's like some clones of me built a country somewhere else. everywhere else I've been all my life I've always been the weird one; never even thought I could have a different sense from that one. so of course I cherish it sentimentally... because it's the only place I belong. it's the only place where my expressions of emotion aren't considered "fake" by other people for example, etc

@tosensei people call things that they're not all the time... it's part of marketing and sales. people buy things that are not called things all the time as well

like the Canadian liberal party freezing people's bank accounts. now that's not very liberal

or the Canadian conservative party being pro immigration... that's not very conservative

it's a sales pitch

worker's party? everyone figures communism "won't be authoritarian". there's no way not to make communism authoritarian. you have to force the pricing of goods, force the amounts of wages. you force how much food people can eat and where they can live. it's all force and it's all authoritarian. the left is not equated with freedom, it's simply equated with "progress". you could be progressing anywhere though. they tell you one thing but do another

@tosensei @Lensflare how do you treat a "complete moron"?

@BordedDev yep Canada you were considered racist if you had reservations about the vaccine. which made no sense

there's prison sentences for racism in Canada lol

barred from traveling over province lines, not allowed to enter grocery stores, not allowed to work. have fun with that

they have murdered several people now, even to this day... by denying them organ transplants because they're not vaccinated. even had a woman do lab work to prove she had natural immunity. nope they let her die. it's literally disgusting. and I was harmed by this vaccine. I'm so fucking harmed by it. I'm so sick of people making light of this issue like they know better somehow. you murdered more people than history has ever seen.

and those vaccine passports were supposed to enacted everywhere. it failed. but they wanted it as basically China's credit score. you aren't allowed to be part of society unless you have a passport. it's not "threat", it's just some very strong "nudging"

@retoor there's still excess deaths. they seem to be getting worse

no clue what the vaccines did. nobody knows still. probably won't know until 40 years down the line

@tosensei hope you are up to date on your 10 boosters. you gotta be safe.

@BordedDev oh yeah I forgot. they delicensed doctors who had reservations about the vaccines

they fired people who wouldn't take it, also

the whole thing is just disgusting

they also killed one doctor... nobody talks about this guy anymore. I think he was poisoned to death. he was the only doctor for a town of 16k and not a single person in his town of mostly old people had died of covid. so he was going around telling people what he did to his patients. then he died of cancer 2 years later. which is a common Slavic murder method but I'll lose everyone saying that, and nobody's spoken of the guy since even tho he was gaining quite a bit of fame prior... scary stuff

@jestdotty can i have your autograph? :P Damn, comming in hard with no mercy. I think you just committed murder :P

Still i consider this rant not escalated and constructive :) It's fun!

But i still not know about the Japanese.

@retoor I think you're small enough to walk a mile in their shoes ;P maybe it's a place to visit

@BordedDev how more efficient, the smaller it gets :P It's evolution! I'm optimized for small houses, the future!

@jestdotty

> how do you treat a "complete moron"?

why do you ask? don't you know how i am treating you?

@tosensei that's not how you talk to a lady, young man :)

@tosensei idk what's your personality vs this mysterious tactic

teach, smartie

@retoor that ain't no lady, buddy.

@tosensei that's mean, that's like saying I'm no princess while that's verified 😕.

@retoor well, why do you think i wrote "buddy" instead of "your highness"?

@tosensei no respect for the monarchy at all huh :( OK, brother.

@retoor respect needs to be earned, not inherited.

"randomly being born into a fortunate position" is nothing to be respected.

@tosensei not if you're born as a German :p

When I was in school I had a conversation with a muslim girl.
She was hardcore defensive of her religion and I was trying to make the argument that the main reason for why she has this specific believe is that she was born in Turkey.
If you were born in Germany, I said, you would probably be Christian.
So how can you claim absolute truth of that religion if it mostly depends on where you were born?

She said that, no, it doesn’t depend on where you are born and that she would be muslim 100% if she was born in Germany, because islam is the only true religion.

I find it hilariously delusional 😂

You just reminded me of that with that discussion of being born into something.

@Lensflare that's 100% true, religion is very cultural. She would've been Christian indeed. Probably punished by Allah on a day by being so but that's a whole different discussion 😂 I mean, if you are raised in a certain place you believed in Santa too. Why would that be any different. The only difference is that God gives signs of existence full time the moment you see it but santa doesn't.

@retoor well, Santa gives signs of existence by bringing presents to children. Any child can confirm it. God doesn‘t.
;)

@Lensflare god brings gifts too. like the gift of lung cancer. or the gift of war. or the gift of natural disasters.

and the flying spaghetti monster brings the gift of volcanic activity in salty ocean water - perfect for boiling noodles.

@Lensflare god provides full time. Even keeps you company. A lost sheeple like you will realize someday I hope and it will come HARD :) Exactly hard enough :) And then life will chance. Also, you'll find out how much time and energy it took reasoning everything to some logic. I was once proud on my rational thinking and atheist too. I was an idiot. Too narrow minded, blind. Placing everything within context of stuff you've learnt from others and not able to break that context. A problem can't be resolved within the context it's created said Einstein dude. God is just a level outside of your context and that's why you don't see it. Something very fundamental has to happen to break out of it, but it's also possible that one day youre just sitting on a char and start to realize things automatically. When that happens it's up to you if you acknowledge God or not but you probably will.. What else could it be. When that happened there's only one type of people that believe you.

@tosensei @Lensflare I know that I stand 'alone' in this discussion without the protection of dottii the brave (I think she zooms out on this subject) now but I can take both of you 😁😁😁 I have much patience for spiritually less developed people. Spiritual development comes when older and sometimes never. It's ok, but it's better if it does for you.

@retoor You are the kind of believer who knows that all of it is bullshit but you choose to ignore it and to believe anyway because it makes you feel better.
I don‘t have as much of a problem with this kind.
It also makes no sense to try to convince you, because the reasons for your believe are not about the truth.
So I‘ll not even try.

You see, I not only believe that theism is false, I also believe that it’s bad for humanity.
It causes harm and stupification to those who are of the other kind (who actually believe it to be true).

@retoor the thing is that religion is, in many regards, the polar opposite of spiritual development.

you're just raised to believe in what you were told, instead of "thinking about stuff yourself".

@retoor also: you always stand alone. everybody does. all the time.

that's what "being an individual" is about.

@Lensflare why do you think so? Why would it be bullshit?

@tosensei that's not true, not raised relegious and you won't hear me praise Jesus.

@tosensei especially in your case. Sure you stand alone, try getting rid of an addiction. If you believe in help regarding that, you're fucked. You have to do it on your own.

Btw, individual? Egoism you mean. We're more synchronized bots than ever. So many people are not unique. So much NPC. Saying the same stuff. Predictable like Chatgpt answers.

@retoor I‘m getting this impression from all of your comments on this topic. Might even be subconscious but it‘s there.

@Lensflare nah, anyway, I once had a true experience that I just can't share with people not being religious. It's impossible. And I consider that rationalizing things is the comfort zone instead. But you have no idea how much energy you actually have spent until you stop doing it. But you can't stop. That's the issue. Something needs to happen for that.