!!depression

I used to measure my performance in features per day (or week, depending on their scope), or tasks/day or loc/day for huge projects. My usual was two to three small features a day, and some progress on a larger one.

Now I’m so burned out and depressed that i measure my progress in the amount of days per week that aren’t “zeros” — as in days where i get literally nothing done. Now any day where i get _anything_ done, no matter how little, is a “good day.” I partially refactored about fifty lines of json builder spaghetti on Tuesday. That was a great day.

This week I’ve had two zeros, and it’s Thursday morning. I think it’s going to be a three zero week.

Worse: performance reviews were due weeks ago. I still haven’t written mine, and have no idea what i would even write. How can i make myself sound good when i can barely even force myself to eat or take a shower?

>inb4 just get help
>inb4 have you tried not being depressed?

I’m trying my best here.

Finding a doctor/therapist is difficult, and most days even “easy” is too much. I also just moved here and haven’t managed to get any ID yet. (Can you guess why?)

Damn, is there any way you can take a break for 1-2 weeks? Maybe travel a bit, change the scenery around you, spend a few days without anything on your mind. It probably won't get you back to "normal", but it would definitely help.

It’s not something easy to get through, I know. But while it often doesn’t seem like it, there’s most likely light at the end of the tunnel, somewhere.

The only thing you can do is suffer through it, try and get professional help (as if you’d have the energy to, but maybe on one of the better days?) and be straightforward with your superiors that you’re going through some hard times right now. Any employer worth anything should be understanding of the circumstances.

Strength, you’ll get through it like the rest of us who’ve been there have!

Know the fealing...
I just got out of one cause I started working....
Don't know what to say to help... Here's a virtual hug 🤗

Oh, another thing you could try is changing up your routine a bit. Do you have a bike? You could ride it for 30min to 1h a day, it might help. Idk if I've ever been depressed, but I think I came close last year (boredom, lockdown and some personal issues). I started riding my bike for an hour a day and after a few days my mood started getting much much better, I think the exercise and seeing the beautiful blue sky really helped. You could also try taking a walk in a park or something. I like going up a small hill close to home and just looking at the view in total silence, just hearing the wind. The feeling of peace is really good.

@100110111 As an insurance policy against getting fired for lack of productivity, I told HR, quote:

“I’ve been feeling increasingly depressed for several months now. I don’t know the triggers or why nothing has seemed to help, but depression doesn’t make sense. It’s also negatively impacting my work and my life, and I’m really beginning to worry. What resources does [redacted] offer? I need help. I don’t know how to get through this on my own.”

I got a response saying “We’ve all been dealing with a lot, so know that you’re not alone” plus some PDFs on what the insurance plan offers, and an offer from HR to talk to my boss about taking a week off if I wasn’t comfortable asking. (I more informed than asked, but the week barely helped.)

But the above conversation with HR was three weeks ago. There has been absolutely no followup since.

I’m feeling pretty alone.

Honestly, I don’t know where to turn to. I feel like i’m just pushing everyone away feeling this miserable and trying to talk about it. Definitely feeling alone.

@Root ouch... I know exactly how you feel, or at least close enough.

What helped for me was being pushed to do something completely new. Or at least that was the push I needed to get on the path of dragging myself out of it after 1,5 years of severe depression (I literally didn’t get up from the couch except to to open the door for the pizza delivery service). It was excercise in the end (cycling) that did the trick. May not work for you, but worth a try to try and muster your energy to give it a shot.

@100110111 I kind of want a bicycle. Kind of don’t want to spend the money on it, though, especially since I’m probably not going to have income in the near future.

But I might start going for walks. It’s warming up enough that it will be comfortable soon.

I really understand what you mean about not getting up off the couch. It’s my bed and office chair for me, not that i get anything done in my office anyway.

But if this continues much longer, I’m pretty sure I won’t ever want to do web dev again.

Sorry to hear that mate. At least you're aware something is up - doesn't sound normal at all from previous posts of yours.

Don't really have any advice, but ++ for support all the same.

Non zero day si tje way to go, even if there is no depression.
I like the approach

Run, walk, bike, exercise

@root fwiw i'm also undergoing heavy personal/emotional stuff, forcing myself to acknowledge that is was time to take a break. How much is up to you. No idea what is possible for you but i have found some comfort and relief in visiting (corona-safe) art expositions and simple walks to nowhere and back.
Point is, take time for yourself, to deal and process the things, so you remember that we don't live for work, but we live to live life in whatever way we/you want it.

Fwiw, you have my support.

Could it be that you are just bored to the death of your soul and feel like that your product isn't actually helping people in any way?

If yes: You are part of the majority. Try finding some non-bullshit job or stop caring about your job (just do it for the money).

If no: You may have crunched too hard and need some longer rest to regen your mana. But it can also be something completely different, so a full medical checkup may be a good idea too (let the physical things get checked first).

@Root Also stuck in a rut to the point where I'm beginning to ask myself if webdev is still for me (I've only been at it since 2015).

I think I underappreciated how much I am energized by being around dev peers, away from home, sharing lunch, shaking hands, talking at the coffee corners and having dev-related debates..
I dont know of a direct solution, maybe this also plays a role in your case?

hope you have some savings.
its not like you can cure burnout by the snap of fingers.

if you are between a hammer and a hard place with your finances, my first option would be go see a shrink and get a sick leave for depression.

second option: hard reset. buy a bottle of smirnoff on saturday, drink until pass out, die on sunday bc hangover, be reborn monday.

caveat: alcohol is also an euphoric so if you feel really really bad, might not be the best option because you might do something stupid.
especially if you have history of functionning despite blackout. if so:

third option, weed.
depends on your work environment.
makes you lazy and forgetful.
but you can code if you keep some discipline and are comfortable with using paper.
thats how i can do an average of 12 h/d studying or working on my projects

fourth option medication, but your mental performance will really take a hit.

dont know much about coding professionally, but i do know a thing or two about depression and burnout

Sorry to hear you're in that dark place @Root . Sounds like a change is inevitable and with depression comes anxiety.
I heard anxiety and excitement trigger the same parts of our brains, chemically identical.
The only difference is the psychological perspective one has on a situation.
Maybe this change will bring exciting new things to your life.
Wish you the best

@bad-frog I'd stay away from alcohol & weed when depressed. Depression meds also had a negative effect on me.

For me two things lifted me out -- A really tough LSD trip (which is not advisable either, unless supervised by a therapist), and occupational therapy.

After that trip I realized something had to be done about the giant gnawing void in my life, so I signed up for yoga in the park with a bunch of moms, cake baking classes, volunteering as a schoolyard guard, spent a few days with a birdwatching club camping in a forest, etc.

All stuff I really didn't like. Or so I thought. I mean, I didn't like the activities themselves that much. But I did like doing *something*, something new, something other than my (back then, '00s) default routine of watching Simpsons on repeat while playing Counterstrike 1.6.

@bad-frog The extremely nasty part of course is that currently, you can't even do most of that.

I am convinced that (self-prescribed) occupational therapy which takes you out of your routine is the cure for most forms of depression... but yeah, most "activities" tend to be social(ish).

I'm currently trying to stay sane by renovating a part of my house, cooking a new recipe every day, and working on my 3D-modelling skills in Blender.

Just apply elsewhere, you have good experience. You can (and should) stop the death march

@bittersweet 1.6, noob. Hah! Id bet id kick yer ass on de_aztec with a deagle and 6 bullets 😜

If you can, stop working altogether when you feel a zero day. Nothing is worse than dragging yourself through the mid on a creativity-based job.

@bad-frog 10-11 years of ssris under my belt. Luckily I stopped them years ago bc they put me in a real bad fog lol

It's tough to see you down like this dude.

Go to random, short hiking trips. Seems to help a lot. Also, if possible, try not to measure your work output as that will perpetuate this cycle.

@bittersweet as you saw, first option i gave was time off, paid if possible.
but should have cited physical workout as a plus.
doenst fill the void for me though.
biting my tongue, and carrying on does.

i listed the remedies in order from most benign, mind you

@TeachMeCode
saw a fair share of such things too.
a good friend of mine is in the process of coming back to the living.
always steered away form chemical medicine myself. hasnt been all roses, but i carried on...

@bad-frog Still taking adderall for 20 years which is more than half my age

I have being out of a job for almost a month now and it is the best thing that happened to me. I am worried about money of course but I am looking forward to getting back into something new next month hopefully. I feel so much more relaxed now that I quit the underpaying, stressful and just insane job that had me running around my heel for 3 years. Major ups and downs in those period but I am so much more zen now. I also decided to put more energy into my nonprofit and it’s being awesome. I have some ideas and will be putting it to work soon as I can.
A break is what you need. Take 4 weeks if you can to just chill out, recalibrate, spend time with the family and remember the important things to you.
I am sending you so much positive energy and support all the way from across the world. You will get through this. Be selfish and put yourself first.

@bad-frog though at least the adderall kept me energized during 🤮 cross country when I started as a teen

When root is sad I get sad >:(

I want to let you know it is fine if you don’t feel great after a burnout, as a person who got burned out first hand I can tell you that there will be some fallbacks of it, but that over time you will get back in track if that is what you like to do.

It may start subtle like a thing you want to automate or obvious (I may or may not have made my fridge scream: “CLOSE THE DAMN DOOR!” As a joke trough a raspberry pie, but this is not the point!)

Try to explore your passions or hobbies a bit, that really helped me when I was stuck (I built some gunpla back then)

@TeachMeCode wow. thats a lot of drugs.
have you tried stopping taking it?

@root So sorry to read that. The US is not the best country for health problems and depression (burnout is just a more acceptable way to say it) is no exception.

As other said try to do other stuff, even if sometimes it feels like saying "just walk" to someone suffering from a spinal cord injury...

But it takes time (It took me almost 3 years to finish with mine after my father's death), and our industry is not the best to handle this kind of problem.

A lot of good vibes! Even if it can feel like it, you're not alone and we are a lot to think that you're awesome!

@bad-frog I kinda need them at this point

@TeachMeCode fucking pharma and their lackeys.
wouldnt be the first time they turn people into lifelong customers.
i would have prolly been hooked to something by now too.
they tried to give me medication since age 13.
every time they did i changed therapeutist.
everytime they came up with a different diagnosis.
bipolar, schizophrenia, psychosis.
always looking for the issue within the patient. all of them missing the point, being that i just have a shit life in a shit environment with shit parents who dont give two shits about me.
i even ended up in a psychiatric hospital. although this was the doing of the one psychiatrist who had seen through my game:
by that time (17) i learned quite a bit about psychology myself and learned to deal with my issues. but i needed a medical dispense from school to justify my abscence so that my father can keep recieving welfare cheques for me.
the psychiatrist thought i could do some good work out there (cont)

@TeachMeCode (cont)
... which i actually did. i dont know the actual term, but it wasnt what people imagine when i say psychiatric hospital.
it was more of a reeducation centre for people who got destroyed by medication. some went back to the actual hospital for the night, some came back to their homes.
now i know what they intended to do, and what i actually did was behavioural activation.
except they got it all wrong. how can you reactivate people if your activities make em dumber? anyways,
i ended with that centre when i was almost 18. no more medical dispense was needed, so i could wing it.
found myself a new passion: psychology. even started learning back all the years i skipped school, and was succeeding. in two months i learned two years worth of math. father threw me out of the house when i was 18 and 2 months. guess my cheques werent needed anymore. all learning went to shit. lived a few years on oddjobs and stealing (cont.)

@TeachMeCode at some point i started working in construction, illegally bc i know foreign languages so i could communicate with the rest of the team.
then i worked for 8 years until i learned i can enter a special kind of coding school, which i sucessfully did.
ive been coding on and off as a hobby for around 7 years at that point.
im 32. no real prospect to find a job in programming once my formation is complete. my dreams are dead and buried, and im too old to pursue new ones.
now the plan is to live one day at a time, and pursue personnal projects. money is a good substitue for dreams.

dont know where im going with all this, but since you are sharing personnal stuff, i thought i might return the politesse

im temporarily afk, need to get some weed now.
thinking about this stuff put me in a bad mood...

What helped me was to take some time off and leave earlier from work to clear my head in nature by going on a walk and try to get out of the spiral of depressing thoughts.
These thought spirals are the worst...
Never forget that you are a capable and intelligent programmer! ❤️

@bad-frog just got a 2nd covid vaccination and got drunk even with flu symptoms. I’m prepared to face the flu dreams augmented with the alcohol. Wish me luck @Root . Freakish flu monsters will strike with a vengeance

Awwww. How are you doing now? It's okay to not be okay sometimes.

I'll give you a hug, cuz that's all I can do at this point. 🤗

@NoMad thanks! It was scary, I woke up at six to pee and on my way i felt most of my muscles stiff and weak, with achey legs. The dizziness and nausea was getting me ready to vomit my guts out. Then when i was done I started sweating profusely and body was overheating so I cranked the AC and the small fan near the bed and slammed down Gatorade while feeling super shitty. I’m better now but still a way to go

@TeachMeCode hahaha now thats being adventurous!
but wait, youre saying... that the vaccine got you flu symptoms, or that you recieved the vaccine while being sick?

@bad-frog it gave me flu symptoms. But that’s a good thing

@TeachMeCode well, it means your body is reacting to it, thats the only sure thing.

lets hope it is as useful as the media reports it to be.

im quite skeptical myself, because of the dynamic of the flu virus mutation. once a vaccine rolls out, most often it is already obsolete.
and covid is basically a super-flu. (coronavirus is a whole family of viruses causing bronchitis, but also SARS among others.)

but hey, you get to have the covid vaccine passeport and thats an undeniable plus

@NoMad Unwell.

I have a lot of zeros, and have been just staring at the walls lately. I literally do not have the energy to do much of anything.

Some days are better than others, and on those days I do what I can.

I’ve been talking with my boss about it. He’s... not unsupportive, but he doesn’t understand and doesn’t know how to help. And he also won’t take this monster ticket off my plate... -.-

I’d rather just go crumple up in the corner and stay there for a week.

@Root the zeros are fine. Life is too short to care just about work.

That monster ticket seems like a bugger tho.

What else do you like to do these days aside from hiding in caves/corners?

@NoMad Honestly, I don’t.
I’m either “working” as in sitting at my desk trying to do something other than just staring, or I’m cooking, or sleeping. Sometimes I get to eat. Sometimes I get work done, too. I’m down to about 2-3 hours of real work a week. (Plus meetings to smile and try to chit chat through.)

I also browse social media once in awhile looking for easy laughs. I spend the rest of my coherent time reading about treatments for depression and trying them.

@Root hey that's good! You're trying! There's hope for you! 😀

You'll find your way through soon enough. I'll spare you the "have you tried..." because you're already reading about them anyways. Tho, if I can make one suggestion, it is to find out what you "could" enjoy(as opposed to "do", like you could enjoy gardening but you do enjoy cooking) and try to fit that in too. If that's not possible "right now", chances are your depression is situational and will go away once the situation changes.

Well... When I reached a psychotic state in a Burn out I started learning eletrónics... Got obcessed with them, but it kept my mind busy...
My ex started making clothes to distract after a depression...
Maybe you can find something to keep your mind out of reality...

Btw weed does help. It doest cure but got me trough the worst times, specialy when I had suicidal tendencies...

@GyroGearloose Not an option here, unfortunately.

"I used to measure my performance in features per day"

I read that as "I used to measure my depression in features per day".

Its not just a saying, it's the truth: Before you diagnose yourself as depressed, do a gut check to see if you aren't just surrounded by a bunch of miserable unbearable cunts.

And then if you are, find a way to work without working in their proximity or within the range of their influence.

Or if that fails, get away as fast as possible to some other place. May seem painful and excessive, but if anything I wrote is correct, being around insufferable people can ruin your health, and often when you're around them regularly you dont see *just how terrible* they are for your sanity *until* you get away.

Hell is other people.