Let's start 2023 !

WHO THE FUCK imagined that having language like YAML is a good idea ??

Fuck you and your spaces. No editor produce any decent errors messages except "Your spaces are wrong".

When you edit an Azure debops pipeline, it's just 5 min ti do thing, 35 minuites to figure ou where to add/remove spaces.

NO, I WILL NOT read 25 pages of documentation to add a single step into pipeline.

Fuck YAML !

Well I love YAML.

Python devs be like...... me 👍

Yaml is great for basic stuff but it has way too many features, don't use them.

I agree! But then I'm also annoyed by the modern ini format - toml. Imo the best config formats are json and properties [key=value\n], where key is a dot-delimited property path. Easy to parse, understand, debug, share. Hard to make mistakes. Drawback - verbosity...Which is also a good thing

While YAML suffers from feature creep, it is still better than XML, JSON and any INI derivative.

@Oktokolo How it's better than JSON ?

writing

this

way

makes

no

sens

JSON is 10000000000000 times better than YAML in ANY way. (I reserve my judgement for XML, as XML is a LOT of useless writing)

See : Even devrant trims the strings.

@NoToJavaScript As someone who likes to indent his code, i like the instant readability of YAML without any decorations like curlies, brackets or quotes where you really shouldn't need any.

@NoToJavaScript now do variable substitution in your json and let's see how it looks

Yamllint ftw.

Meanwhile AWS docs say that YAML is more readable than JSON smh

@daxinator22 A link ?

Not joking, would love to read it.

I only ever looked at it once
That's how relevant it is to me

The concept of memory leak prevention in rust sticks in my mind more and I dont think rust is useful

@Oktokolo why better than JSON ?

@NoToJavaScript https://docs.aws.amazon.com/elastic...

About the third paragraph down

@AvatarOfKaine See four days old reply to NoToJavaScript.

@Oktokolo that sounds not good

@Oktokolo ... This is awful
https://cloudbees.com/blog/...

People use this ?

@AvatarOfKaine Only people who like indenting their stuff. People who don't, obviously also don't like YAML.

@Oktokolo
https://youtu.be/5S1UfNjdJ_Y

@Oktokolo also everyone likes indenting their code..

@AvatarOfKaine Yes, they like it because Indentation works pretty damn well for making structured stuff more readable. It works so well that almost everyone uses it when writing code even when whitespace isn't significant.

All but the most trivial configuration has structure. It can be complex. It is more likely to be maintained by people who aren't developers - so the readability requirements are actually higher than for normal code.

And you want it to be less readable than code? Why?

@Oktokolo well all the curly braces brackets commas and delimiters do make JSON readable 🥺

@AvatarOfKaine Not really. They are a compromise between readability and not wanting to parse significant whitespace. Also, if used as configuratuion, JSON normally gets indented too - making the delimiters, curlies and brackets just clutter that could be optimized away.

@Oktokolo personally I like string trim...

@Oktokolo like I can deal with python

But it has delimiters as well

But in the case of c etc I see the value of being able to compile a string with no line breaks

@Oktokolo you know like when platforms didn't play nice and their line endings were different

@AvatarOfKaine It is easy to support both line ending schemes still in use. And yes, parsers are easier to write for languages that don't have significant indenting. But when it comes to readability, significant indenting just rules.

Python does it right (as does YAML): Only a few delimiters where they are actually needed (the colon for control structures in Python is sortof redundant - but for me it reads better with it than without).

@Oktokolo but...
The parser doesn't need indenting to have significance
That's just a human thing...

Again it's not a big deal for me in python

Because like everyone
I indent anyway

But
I like
Markers
That
Express
What
The
Type is
And organizational units
Yaml is crap lol

@AvatarOfKaine Of course it is a human thing. Making the computer's interpretation match the human's expectation makes code more easy to reason about - for humans. The whole point of readability/maintainability is to make it easier for humans.

For machines we got the language interpreted by the CPU's microcode. Good luck directly writing code for that (possible but not desirable nor efficient).