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Search - "never accomplished"
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This week I quit the corporate life in favour of a much smaller company (60 people in total) and i never felt so good.
After 3 years in 2 big corporations, I began to hate coding mainly because of:
- internal political games. It's like living inside House of Cards everyday.
- management and non-tech people choosing tech stacks. Angular 4 + Bootstrap 4 alpha version + AG-Grid + IE11. Ohhh yeah. Not.
- overtime (even if it was paid double). I never did a single minute of OT for fixing something that I caused. I spent days fixing things caused by others and implementing promises that other people made.
- meetings. I spend 50-60% of the time in pointless meetings (I tracked them in certain time intervals) but the workload is same like I was working 8 hours / day.
- working in encapsulated environments without access to internet or with limited access to internet (no GitHub, no StackOverflow etc.)
- continuously changing work scope. Everyday the management wants something new introduced in the current sprint/release and nobody accepts that they have to remove other things from the scope in order to proper implement everything.
- designers that think they are working for Apple and are arguing with things like "but it's just a button! why does it take 2 days to implement?"
- 20 apps installed additionally on my phone (Citrix Receiver, RSA Token, Mobile@Work Suite etc.) just to be able to read my email
- working with outdated IDEs and tools because they have to approve every new version of a software.
- making tickets for anything. Do you want a glass of water? Open a ticket and ask for it.
- KPIs. KPIs everywhere. You don't deserve anything because the KPIs were not accomplished.
The bad part of the above things is that they affect your day-to-day personality even if you don't see it. You become more like a rock with almost 0 feelings and interests.
This is my first written "rant". If anyone is interested, I will post different situations that will explain a lot of the above aspects.13 -
Prologue
My dad has an acquaintance - let's call him Tom. Tom is an gynecologist, one of the best in Poznań, where I live. He's a great guy but absolutely can not into tech of any kind besides his iPhone and basic PC usage. For about a year now I've been doing small jobs for him - build a new PC for his office, fix printer, fix wifi, etc. He has made a big mistake few years ago by trusting a guy, let's call him Shitface, with crating him software for work. It's supposed to be pretty simple piece of code in which you can create and modify patient file, create prescription from drugs database and such things. This program is probably one of the worst pierces of code I've ever seen and Shitface should burn for that. Worse, this guy is pretentious asshole lacking even basic IT knowledge. His code is garbage and it's taking him few months to make small changes like text wrapping. But wait, there's more. Everything is hardcoded so every PC using this software must have installed user controls for which he doesn't have license and static IP address on network card.
Part 1
Tom asked me to build him a new PC that will be acting like a server for Shitface's program. He needs it in Kalisz (around 150 km from my place). I Agred (pun intended) and after Tom brought me his old computer I've bought parts and built a new one. I have also copied everything of value and everything took me around three hours.
Part 2
Everything was ready but Shitface's program. I didn't know much about it's configuration so when I've noticed that it's not working even on the old PC I got a bit worried. Nevertheless I started breaking everything I know about it and after next three hours I've got it somewhat working. Seeing that there's still some problems with database connection (from Windows' Event Viewer) I wrote quick SMS to Shitface asking what can be wrong. He replied that he won't be able to help me any way until Monday (day after deadline). I got pissed and very courteously asked him for source code because some of libraries used in this project has license that requires either purchase of commercial license or making code open source. He replied within few minutes that he'll be able to connect remotely within next 10 minutes. He was trying to make it work for the next hour but he succeeded. It was night before deadline so I wrapped everything up and went to bed thinking that it won't take me more than an hour to get this new PC up and running in the office. Boy was I wrong.
Also, curious about his code, I've checked source and he is using beautiful ponglish (mixed Polish and English) with mistakes he couldn't even bother to fix. For people from Poland, here's an example:
TerminarzeController.DeleteTerminarzShematyDlaLekarza
Part 3
So I drove to Kalisz and started working on making everything work. Almost everything was ready so after half an hour I was done. But I wanted to check twice if it's all good because driving so far second time would be a pain. So I started up Shitface's program, logged in, tried to open ANYTHING and... KABUM. UNHANDLED EXCEPTION. WTF. I checked trace and for fuck sake something was missing. Keep in mind that then I didn't know he's using some third party control for Windows Forms that needs to be installed on client PC. After next fifteen minutes of googling I've found a solution. I just had to install this third party software and everything will work. But... It had to be exactly this version and it was old. Very old. So old that producent already removed all traces of its existence from their web page and I couldn't find it anywhere. I tried installing never version and copying files from old PC but it didn't work. After few hours of searching for a solution I called Mr Shitface asking him for this control installation file. He told me that he has it but will be able to send it my way in the evening. Resigned I asked for this new PC to be left turned on and drove home. When he sent me necessary files I remotely installed them and everything started working correctly.
So, to sum it up. Searching for parts and building new PC, installing OS and all necessary software, updating everything and configuring it for Tom taste took me around what, 1/3 of time I spent on installing Mr Shitface's stupid program which Tom is not even happy with. Gotta say it was one of worst experiences I had in recent months. Hope I won't have to see this shit again.
Epilogue
Fortunately everything seems to work correctly. Tom hasn't called me yet with any problems. Mission accomplished. I wanna kill very specific someone. With. A. Spoon.1 -
I had been a "hobby" programmer for well over a decade, with my primary career being in repair or a "technician". I had taught myself dozens of languages because it was fun, but never really accomplished much.
I was laid off from my job as a technician and I found myself listless and without purpose. I started doing development again on random things to pass the time and I ended up volunteering as a developer for a game I had played for years.
At the same time I had an uncle who encouraged me to consider software as a career. These two things gave me the confidence to apply for a local software job I saw on Indeed.
They called me pretty quickly, and I was brutally honest. "No, I don't have a degree. I'm self-taught. I have no professional experience really."
I got a proficiency exam anyway and I took it - apparently doing well enough on it that the CTO called me a week later. We had a long talk and I finally asked him why he called me.
He told me that while a degree means something, the passion to learn this job means more to him. It was a month before I was offered the position, and I graciously accepted it.
We had a call about my compensation before starting. It was rather low, but we both agreed that my skill level was quite an unknown.
A year later and my pay was bumped up a sizable amount. My skills are defined now and growing rapidly as new challenges are sent my way. I went from a naive hobbyist to a professional in a short period of time.
I realized that I was always a professional. I had a desire to learn and a desire to do things the right way. I may not have known what to call things. I didn't know some of the design patterns I had used over the years were standards that had names and meaning.
I basically work two jobs now. My full-time job and also on the game that helped propel my career forward and gave me the confidence to reach for it.
As for my hobby? I turned to electronics and the maker community. It's a nice marriage with my programming skill set, and I never knew how rewarding a blinking LED would be. :)4 -
I found this posted by a recruiter and I liked it:
| hired someone that didn't shake my hand firmly during the
interview - he rocked as an employee.
| hired someone with three typos on their resume. - She was
the most detailed oriented person l’ve ever worked with.
| hired someone without a college degree- He was way
smarter, innovative, and creative than mel!
| hired someone with four kids- Never met someone so
devoted and committed to her career.
| hired someone who had been incarcerated as a young adult.
- He's a VP now.
| hired someone over 60- she taught me some tricks on excel
that | use to this day!
Can we please throw out all those silly assumptions and rules that we've made up in our head about what a person needs to
be, look like, have accomplished, and do, to succeed?
In my experience, as an HR leader and as a hiring manager, it's those that typically don't get a “shot” who tend to kick butt
in the workplace!
So before you throw that resume away because they don't have every certificate and degree - or - don't call back that candidate because they didn't give you a firm handshake - think about trying something new. Someone new.10 -
Not really a fired moment because it was a university project.
A colleague of mine decided it'd be nice to set placeholder images to Hitler wearing a hello Kitty Nazi uniform. Oh without telling anyone, of course.
I go into the lab that a couple lecturers share, one of them was interested in the project we were working on and to our surprise the placeholder images pop up. I immediately say sorry, I didn't set that image and the guy looks at me with judging eyes.
Same guy has to take meds daily otherwise he acts up, not sure what it was he had, may have been ADHD, anyways we were staying late and he forgot his meds, and while our client is in the same room this guy starts doing the macarana behind the room separator, while we're supposed to give him a live preview of what we had accomplished in three months of work. Needless to say he didn't see him dancing like a moron but wow :/ learn to control yourself.
Same guy also never commented his code and used the two letter variable principal because it's such a great idea >.> Me and the other guy spent 6 hours rewriting his code, which should have been less time but he wasn't there to help nor was he available to yell.. I mean ask for help.
I hate University group projects....2 -
I'll use this topic to segue into a related (lonely) story befitting my mood these past weeks.
This is entire story going to sound egotistical, especially this next part, but it's really not. (At least I don't think so?)
As I'm almost entirely self-taught, having another dev giving me good advice would have been nice. I've only known / worked with a few people who were better devs than I, and rarely ever received good advice from them.
One of those better devs was my first computer science teacher. Looking back, he was pretty average, but he held us to high standards and gave good advice. The two that really stuck with me were: 1) "save every time you've done something you don't want to redo," and 2) "printf is your best debugging friend; add it everywhere there's something you want to watch." Probably the best and most helpful advice I've ever received 😊
I've seen other people here posting advice like "never hardcode" or "modularity keeps your code clean" -- I had to discover these pretty simple concepts entirely on my own. School (and later college) were filled with terrible teachers and worse students, and so were almost entirely useless for learning anything new.
The only decent dev I knew had brilliant ideas (genetic algorithms, sandboxing, ...) before they were widely used, but could rarely implement them well because he was generally an idiot. (Idiot sevant, I think? Definitely the idiot part.) I couldn't stand him. Completely bypassing a ridiculously long story, I helped him on a project to build his own OS from scratch; we made very impressive progress, even to this day. Custom bootloader, hardware interfacing, memory management, (semi) sandboxed processes, gui, example programs ...; we were in highschool. I'm still surprised and impressed with what we accomplished.
But besides him, almost every other dev I met was mediocre. Even outside of school, I went so many years without having another competent dev to work with. I went through various jobs helping other dev(s) on their projects (or rewriting them), learning new languages/frameworks almost every time: php, pascal, perl, zend, js, vb, rails, node, .... I learned new concepts occasionally (which was wonderful) but overall it was just tedious and never paid well because I was too young to be taken seriously (and female, further exacerbating it). On the bright side, it didn't dwindle my love for coding, and I usually spent my evenings playing with projects of my own.
The second dev (and one one of the best I've ever met) went by Novo. His approach to a game engine reminded me of General Relativity: Everything was modular, had a rich inheritance tree, and could receive user input at any point along said tree. A user could attach their view/control to any object. (Computer control methods could be attached in this way as well.) UI would obviously change depending on how the user could interact and the number of objects; admins could view/monitor any of these. Almost every object / class of object could talk to almost everything else. It was beautiful. I learned so much from his designs. (Honestly, I don't remember the code at all, and that saddens me.) There were other things, too, but that one amazed me the most.
I havent met anyone like him ever again.
Anyway, I don't know if I can really answer this week's question. I definitely received some good advice while initially learning, but past that it's all been through discovering things on my own.
It's been lonely. ☹2 -
I've accomplished something I thought I'd never do.
I convinced my boss to switch from SVN to Git. (before SVN we've even been using CVS if someone remembers)
Only requirement: it needs to stay in house and I'm the one setting up the server, writing documentation and teach everyone how to use it.
What? Why should I setup the server? Don't we have someone whose job it is to... OK ok... I'll do it.
So after some painstaking arguments with the guy whose job it should have been to do that, I've managed to install a virtual machine running Gitlab.
Long story short: I've just found out about the joys of mail configuration to send E-Mails to established mail providers. Every... single... one of them has a different problem with the way the mails are sent.
Fml
I think I'm going to ask that guy again to use our mail servers SMTP. There should be a possibility to use my gitlabs domain for that somehow.
Really looking forward to Monday. Ugh... -
I just wanted to get this off my chest.
There we go, that time is finally coming: all of my friends are starting to look for jobs; we are all about to graduate, but i feel no desire to move forward... I wish i had their optimism, but all i feel is terror and panic every time they bring up the topic...
I have no plan, no idea of what might happen, and i don't feel like i am particularly competent in anything: I do not have much to offer to society, surely not in terms of technical skills: i'm a real shitty programmer with the attention span of a goldfish.
I am passionate about a bunch of topics, but i am not competent at them in any meaningful way: I like reading about x86 Assembly or Operating System design, but if you'd ask me to write them i wouldn't be able to really. Its all superficial, i read these things for fun but i never really accomplished anything.
And i know this is all in my head, that as soon as i find anything its probably gonna be fine, i just wish i had the enthusiasm and drive that people around me seem to have, instead of acting like a little bitch :)8 -
As a person who has a problem with authority (in group projects, not the law), I never really understood the need for the boss until I started making a game with a few friends.
IT.WAS.BAD!
I'm not just taking about noone actually doing anything other than throwing ideas ifbthey bothered to show up at all, but...and this is the worst of all, whenever we came to a mechanic that we all agreed upon, everyone had their own vision for it, that they defended like it's their firstborn. For two months we accomplished nothing, other than a few half baked ideas.
It wasn't until we "promoted" one of us to a "boss" status, that people actually started working.2 -
2 hour meeting to brainstorm ideas to improve our system health monitoring (logging, alerting, monitoring, and metrics)
Never got past the alerting part. Piss poor excuses for human being managers kept 'blaming' our logging infrastructure for allowing them to log exceptions as 'Warnings', purposely by-passing the alerting system.
Then the d-head tried to 'educate' everyone the difference between error and exception …frack-wad…the difference isn't philosophical…shut up.
The B manager kept referring to our old logging system (like we stopped using it 5 years ago) and if it were written correctly, the legacy code would be easier to migrate. Fracking lying B….shut the frack up.
The fracking idiots then wanted to add direct-bypass of the alerting system (I purposely made the code to bypass alerting painful to write)
Mgr1: "The only way this will work is if you, by default, allow errors to bypass the alerting system. When all of our code is migrated, we'll change a config or something to enable alerting. That shouldn't be too hard."
Me: "Not going to happen. I made by-passing the alert system painful on purpose. If I make it easy, you'll never go back and change code."
Mgr2: "Oh, yes we will. Just mark that method as obsolete. That way, it will force us to fix the code."
Me: "The by-pass method is already obsolete and the teams are already ignoring the build warnings."
Mgr1: "No, that is not correct. We have a process to fix all build warnings related to obsolete methods."
Mgr2: "Yes. It won't be like the old system. We just never had time to go back and fix that code."
Me: "The method has been obsolete for almost a year. If your teams haven't fixed their code by now, it's not going to be fixed."
Mgr1: "You're expecting everything to be changed in one day. Our code base is way too big and there are too many changes to make. All we are asking for is a simple change that will give us the time we need to make the system better. We all want to make the system better…right?"
Me: "We made the changes to the core system over two years ago, and we had this same conversation, remember? If your team hasn't made any changes by now, they aren't going to. The only way they will change code to the new standard is if we make the old way painful. Sorry, that's the truth."
Mgr2: "Why did we make changes to the logging system? Why weren't any of us involved? If there were going to be all these changes, our team should have been part of the process."
Me: "You were and declined every meeting and every attempt to include your area. Considering the massive amount of infrastructure changes there was zero code changes required by your team. The new system simply worked. You can't take advantage of the new features which is why we're here today. I'm here to offer my help in any way I can with the transition."
Mgr1: "The new logging doesn't support logging of the different web page areas. Until you can make that change, we can't begin changing our code."
Me: "Logging properties is just a name+value pair dictionary. All you need to do is standardize on a name and how you add it to the collection."
Mgr2: "So, it's not a standard field? How difficult would it be to change the core assembly? This has to be standard across all our areas and shouldn't be up to the developers to type in anything they want."
- Frack wads smile and nod to each other like fracking chickens in a feeding frenzy
Me: "It can, but what will you call this property? What controls its value?"
- The look I got from both the d-bags I could tell a blood vessel popped.
Mgr1: "Oh…um….I don't know…Area? Yea … Area."
Mgr2: "Um…that's not specific enough. How about Page?"
Mgr1: "Well, pages can cross different areas, and areas cross different pages…what do you think?"
Me: "Don't know, don't care. It's up to you. I just need a name."
Mgr2: "Modules! Our MVC framework is broken up in Modules."
DevMgr: "We already have a field for Module. It's how we're segmenting the different business processes"
Mgr1: "Doesn't matter, we'll come up with a name later. Until then, we won't make any changes until there is a name."
DevMgr: "So what did we accomplish?"
Me: "That we need to review the web's logging and alerting process and make sure we're capturing errors being hidden as warnings."
Mgr1: "Nooo….we didn't accomplish anything. This meeting had no agenda and no purpose. We should have been included in the logging process changes from day one."
Mgr2: "I agree, I'm not sure why we're here"
Me: "This was a brainstorming meeting as listed in the agenda. We've accomplished 2 of the 4 items. I think we've established your commitment to making the system better. Thank you all for coming."
- Mgr1 and 2 left without looking at me or saying a word.1 -
For different reasons, this outbreak of coronavirus lead me to learn how to use git efficiently (never had to before, as I work mostly alone). In two days I learned to fork, branch, pull, push, ... I feel like I really accomplished something for myself.
Oh and I also started to collaborate to a shiny app in R. Any way is good to keep my mind off the fact of being in lockdown in a foreign country.
Stay positive people! :) -
Warning long rambling story cause sleep deprivation
I never really bothered with ssh outside of using putty to remote into my servers and rpi's from my desktop to run updates, install something, or whatever else.
But today I was on a call with my cousin bored cause she was just rambling, so I opened vscode to clean my install of unnecessary extensions I installed and haven't used more than once or twice.
I saw Remote - SSH and as I was bored listening to a teenager complain about high school just like I used to (lol) and responding when she asked me something. I scrolled through the page, then the documentation just casually skimming the text
I setup an ssh key on an rpi I threw manjaro arm following the instructions on their tips and tricks page
I then moved the key to my desktop using winscp (cause lazy)
leading to having a minor hicup of rsa not being an accepted keytype (thanks 'your favorite search engine' for the help)
Finally, I was able to connect using the private key
at this point my cousin went to bed cause she has school tomorrow. But I was still doing stuff with ssh, I created a new ssh connection in VSCode, but had to go to the documentation to figure out how to make it use my fancy new key file, not hard took 30 seconds of looking to get it working.
Now that I was in, I moved to my development folder, created a folder for PiHole, created a compose yml, created a pihole-data folder.
I opened the yml and pasted in a compose from dockerhub.
at this point I thought 'i can't just run this from terminal can I'. and Obviously it worked cause there's literally no reason it wouldn't I'm just stupid to think it might not.
So I created folders and files on a remote system, launched a docker container, checked for package updates after on a linux machine. All from VS-Code on a windows machine.
I know this is simple for some people, i know some people are like 'where's the interesting part'. but ehhh I thought it was cool to get it setup, I now really regret not getting into ssh sooner, and I'm definitely going to uninstall vscode on all my smaller graphical VM's in favor of doing this. and this will definitely help with my headless vm's.
I also will have to thank my cousin, might not have done this if I wasn't stuck at my computer on messenger call with her lol
I'm gonna go to bed now, But I feel accomplished for the first time in a while even if it's for something so simple as setting up anssh key for the first time3 -
Context: We have a 96-port wall-mount patch panel. We're not even using half of those ports. "We" (read: "I") are completely redoing our network rack, as it's an ancient nest of wires. Currently all the ports in use on the patch panel just have random-length cables which are just drooped down beside the rack before running to switches. When I need to trace a cable from patch panel to switch, it's a complete nightmare. However, the cables going to the patch panel do have enough of extra length to do a rack-mount patch panel. I suggest this...
MGR: "Ehhh... I don't really like the idea of tying the rack to the wall... What if we want to move it or something?"
(this rack is in a tiny room and has been there since probably the 1800's.)
ME: "Well the problem currently is that it's all but impossible to trace cables. And even if I rewire it and bundle them nicely, it will still be a headache. With a rack-mount panel, we could just have super short patch cables and so it's super easy when I need to move stuff around."
MGR: "Okkkk..... So what if we would purchase like 3 or 4 switches to get 96 ports, then we run a cable to every patch panel port. That way we never need to change anything :)))."
Dude. Great idea. Let's drop hundreds to thousands of dollars on switches we don't need, rather than just doing a single patch panel. Brilliant. Also another great idea that, running thirty or forty unnecessary cables that we aren't even using. That won't clutter up the rack or use up valuable space or get confusing which ports on the switches are/aren't in use.
I'm trying so hard not to scream right now. I can't deal with this.
EDIT: It gets worse. Apparently part of the reason he wants to do this is "to make it simple". Currently we have our POS system running to its own switch, the printers are on another switch, etc. (yes I know some of this could be accomplished with a VLAN, this was set up before my time). But apparently "if we just had every single port wired then we could plug in whatever we want wherever we want and it wouldn't matter." I just... That's... That's not how you do a network.1 -
Studying computer science. Should have learned for the exam in one week. Learned about heroku, dokku and flynn the entire day instead. I've never felt so accomplished yet not accomplished at the same time.2
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Let's say you're working on some pretty complex JavaScript code, and it's just not working right, nothing you try seems to fix it and you can't figure out what's going on. So, rather than continuing to bang your head against the desk, you decide to do the smart thing and shut down for the day.
You then come back to it the next day, refreshed and ready to do battle with the code! You start by adding a few simple logging statements to see what the hell is going on.
You then run the code and... IT WORKS PERFECTLY?!
You scratch your head for a while before finally realizing that cache didn't get cleared yesterday, so your changes were never executing.
D'oh!
Do you:
(A) Beat yourself up for missing such a stupid and basic thing despite doing this shit for literally over 25 years now, or:
(B) Do a happy dance because you just got a free day and can effectively start the weekend early knowing you accomplished your goal for the week?
(or, I suppose, both, which is kind of where I land)6 -
I felt inspired when I found out about Minecraft mods when I was in elementary school. I thought they looked so cool. I then went and actually bought a Java reference book but I never made any mods. Because Counter Strike came into my life and well I wasn't too proud of myself. But now I've quit CS:GO and I'm now committed to learning programing and I love it!1
-
So some of you might know I'm facing youtube iframe issues, to autoplay them in mobile
Background:
> https://devrant.com/rants/1449270/...
> https://devrant.com/rants/1450121/...
So few weeks later I found a solution to make it work the way it should in mobile i.e. to autoplay after a click on svg play button,
The logic I used https://codepen.io/briangelhaus/...
Boy oh boy I was so fucking happy, jumped out of my chair basically, So I grab a couple of android devices and it works
Enter infamous E-Corp Apple, the logic I used will never work on any apple devices, because apple do not allow autoplay on mobile, So I was like "okay, no worries"
I tell this news to my manager who is aware that I am working on this since weeks and he looks astonished for a millisecond when after hearing the same can't be done Apple, Tells me "then the issue is not fixed"
Well, you're not wrong, but a little appreciation to a trainee / jr dev who accomplished this by manipulating this would mean a lot for me.
And to Apple and Youtube Iframe API, FUCK YOU3 -
to present an TPS ASP.NET site with target features/objectives for our finals in prog subj
working time: 1 night
and i tell you right now, it's the most shittiest site (front end && back end) i have ever done, and i'm never going back. 1/4 only of our class actually accomplished the target features. -
The worst meeting I was in I didn't know how bad it was until later. It was my first week at a new job, and I mostly just spent that week pulling tickets off of the top of the backlog and getting acclimated to the build environment and the project structure.
The meeting was a "sell off" where we would "sell" our efforts to the product owners, which were executives. After my project mentor went over the things we had accomplished, an executive asked why we accomplished those things but not the things that were asked for. I don't recall everything that was said, the basically our project manager threw us under the bus.
After the meeting, I looked at the backlog, and nothing that the Executives talked about was in the backlog, nor anywhere to be found. Our project manager, expected us to just "know" what we were supposed to work on, and create our own user stories. Apparently, what I found out after, was that the project manager went to one of the executives and complained that we, the developers never did what he asked and that we were just rogues working on whatever we wanted to work on. He was our project manager for another month, and he never created any tickets for us, even after two hour long meetings with the project owners. I honestly don't know what he did all freakin' day. He was always in work early. I'm sure a quick brush through his browser history would reveal some interesting things.
The results of that meeting led to this developer to not receive a bunch of RCUs with the rest of the developers amongst another things. Turns out those RCUs were golden handcuffs for everyone else. He left sometime after that and found another place. I interviewed at that place, too and got the job. Now I have the shortest, most productive meetings ever. -
I have a question. If a hiring manager wants details on some of your projects, is that normal? (I've had some ask, but never this deep and over the phone)
Example: UI/API/ALGO how they were implemented, which parts you implemented, what was accomplished, pacific tools, why are you proud of those?
Looking for diversity in projects.
It's for a job interview. I thought it was weird, but Maybe I'm over thinking. Before I email them back, I wanna see what u guys/gals think.
BTW this email is from the HR Manager, not hiring manager, so I'm just going off her word. "She said, He said" sort of thing.
Thanks!5 -
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