Got this in a fortune cookie the other day right after I released a new app.

Advice that I give to interns/grads:

In uni/college, you're taught *how* to code something to achieve a goal, and 99% of the time the code will work and do the job in a lab.

But when building things for a real production environment, you learn the 100 ways how *not* to code, from seeing things break left right and centre - basically everything and anything can break your code, whether it is users, the OS, other people's code, legacy code, lag, concurrency, the alignment of the moon to your server...

!rant, Congratulations

These fresh new college grads...calling themselves Full Stack Developers...
Ask them to consume a web service and I get a blank look...ask them to create a REST service and they are like WTF are you talking...
Has it come to the point that people just keep throwing around terms without understanding the inherent philosophy or idea behind them or is it like it's just to show that they are the "COOL" kids...with no actual idea of what the fuck they are doing ???

20+ years of experience and I hate where this industry is headed. Sure, we have second year grads telling us that they're "Full Stack" developers - but, imo... that's a "Full Stack of Bullshit".

I started developing online properties in 1989, at the ripe age of 17. Bulletin Board Systems. I knew the user experience before it was tagged onto some fuckwad's wonder-filled LinkedIn profile.

When I say, "Don't use that" - it's not the result of a control freak mechanism that seems to be built into every Facebitch/Twatter/SnatchChat fool in existence.

I do so, because I care enough to guide team members in the proper direction so they aren't driving themselves and others off a goddamn cliff, drooling onto mobile device like it's God's penis.

So, of course they do the complete opposite. Fail miserably. Finger point like the typical douche bags. And, slowly destroy the income of everyone around them.

At this point, I'd rather be homeless than to deal with anymore toxic bullshit. So, I'm done. Set up an exit strategy, and walked away from the highest paying position I ever had.

Fuck them and the full stack of bullshit they rode in on. Onward and upwards, fucktards. Enjoy finger-pointing into the mirror.

Back to Earth, in... 3 - 2 - 1.

(Takes a sip of coffee.)

So, how's everyone doing this fine morning?

Stop teaching java on a fucking notepad.

Also, since I am from India, start teaching and putting more emphasis on python. Also not to mention git without which you cant live.

If not in schools, these should be made compulsory for CS grads in universities.

Get your code reviewed by as many good devs as you can. Tell them to be harsh, swallow your pride, expect the code to be torn apart. Then rinse and repeat.

It brings the "know it all" fresh grads down a peg or two, and often brings those with low self esteem up a peg or two (when they realise their code is better than they thought.) Anyone can write code that works. But writing decent, clear, well-tested code that stands up to scrutiny is a different ball game - and it's important to learn that quickly.

Apparently some universities think it's acceptable to take grads' money, teach them a few months of Visual Basic and tell them they're ready for employment in 2019.

I see all these tools for the past few years claiming...

"build an app without writing code"

Great, if you want to build a prototype and then try to find a technical co-founder who can actually build something.

Otherwise, none of us need another shitty cookie-cutter app.

There is a 0% chance you can build anything that will scale without writing some code. Your best case scenario is you sell it to some sucker who doesn't understand that what they are buying is garbage.

I give those folks 3 options...

1. Find a technical co-founder
2. Learn to build software
3. Fuck off

Thinking you can build a software company without building actual quality software if fucking moronic.

Of course, that won't stop the thousands of business grads each year from trying and saying...

"I have such a great idea, I just need someone to build it"

Let's get things straight. You have nothing. NOTHING! You idea is worthless without execution.

I was working at a mid size software company as an intern. Initially I wasn't going to get paid as it was organised through Uni. But then after some discussions with HR, they had agreed to pay me (sweet!). After 6 months of interning (and being paid) I talked with the CEO and he offered me a full time job after Uni. "We'll pay you now" he joked. I told him that the company was already paying me and I was very happy. "Well that's a mistake. You'll have to pay that back" So he wrote up a contract where I would work for them, but my salary would be reduced $15k over the year as "payment".

On that day I was pretty pissed, and I got an email from my current employer saying they were looking for grads. I applied and got the job! I ran away from my old job. I sent one email asking them if they wanted the money (as I wanted to be honest), but they didn't respond. I didn't try again and have kept the money, and am very happy at my current job!

Stepped out of my comfort zone and dropped a Zoom link into the channel for Lambda grads to see if anyone wanted to work through code challenges together. It ended up being enjoyable enough that I’m thinking of making it a regular thing. Meanwhile, contribution graph is still going strong.

I have some how managed to put my self in a Software Architect role with a salary of a Junior developer, My team, who are even more junior as a swath of fresh grads are looking up to me to design this project. I am doubting my abilities and am worried I am going to under deliver, how am I ever going to learn this. Stressed.

So, I'm trying to process the feelings from not getting accepted for the PhD project I applied for a while back. And it's just unfair. They've recruited people with no publication and less GPA than me. I also doubt any of them would be field-wise more relevant than me tbh. (Wouldn't be surprised if they hired MBA grads) I have all the relevant qualifications that even people working on that project do not have. I could easily get this project going beyond what they are doing with it rn. It's unfair. But it's life. And life goes on.

Am I angry? Yes. Am I disappointed, also yes. They didn't give me any alternative offers either. So I am going to steal the project and finish it so they have to throw all the money they've invested in the toilet.

... If only I wasn't depressed and could bring myself to apply elsewhere again. 🙄

HR is getting so desperate they are prescheduling me interviews attached with CVs in the hopes that I will interview the candidates for a senior, even though the candidates have no experience whatsoever in embedded software programming. Workday, JIRA and Excel does not count you absolute fucknuggets.

For fuck sake, I asked management to hire new grads or juniors, at least I can get a person motivated to learn, but I swear they just don't listen.

They just are content with wasting my time lol

Attention Software Engineers!

Quit shooting yourselves in the fucking foot! And this ESPECIALLY goes to new grads. I get that you have just finished school. I get that you need a job! But don't fucking settle for a $30-$40k salary because you're "entry level"! The only reason why there are employers who offer that type of salary is because they know that there are enough idiots who will settle for it!

On average, an entry level software engineer's salary is between $50-$60k at the very least! For Senior developers, it is at least $80K/year (although an argument can be made for why they shouldn't settle for less than $100k/year).

Each time a moron low balls his/her salary, that brings down the market value for that talent. And keep this in mind! They don't have a choice but to hire you. They could choose to outsource their work to poorer countries but they don't want to do that due to obvious quality-related reasons so they HAVE TO hire you if they need the work done. And since the ball is in YOUR COURT, demand your fair salary. You went to school for 4 fucking years. You dealt with that stress for 4 fucking years. Why settle for a salary that you could've made without going to school?

After working form home for over 18 months now, I start reprioritising things.
I relocated to Ireland almost 3 years ago and I love the people, and country.. but..
The government is a new level of incompetent, selfish (politicians) and clueless. Unlike any other EU government I’ve ever seen.
To this day I’m not allowed to leave the country to see my family. I don’t know many people here because most of them already left so that sucks.

Although my company is great, we got a new female CEO which (just my impression) feels like she gotta prove herself to the world and the company is falling apart since she took over. Seniors leaving on a weekly basis and new managers and grads get hired.

I could go back to the country I grew up in and make my 110k a year (which is a lot in Europe) and I could be close to my fam during covid shit. But I told myself to never go back there because I hate that place..

I’m seriously considering leaving the country I love to go back to the country I hate, make good money for 2-3 years and then come back.. but when thinking about going back there I could cry..

It’s fucked up but COVID makes me consider it..

If I could I would buy a cheap farm somewhere and go off grid 😅

It's hard training fresh grads at work when their minds are already full of themselves. Code written for production is always different from those written for projects.

It is said that the number of programmers doubles every five years with fresh CS, CE, and EE grads. Assuming that's true, then at any one time over half the developer community are novices in the early stages of their career.

My entire life's been spent in software and I've been in it now for about 15 years and I've seen a lot of people make alot of things and I've seen a lot of people fail at alot of things. My observation is that the doers are the major thinkers, the people that really create the things that change this industry are both the thinker doer in one person. It's very easy to take credit for the thinking the doing is more concrete. It's very easy for somebody say "oh, I thought of this three years ago" but usually when you dig a little deeper you find that the people that really did it. Were also the people that really worked through the hard intellectual problems.

Many people falsely believe that a great idea constitutes 90% of the work. However, there is a significant amount of craftsmanship required to bridge the gap between a great idea and a great product. As you evolve that great idea it changes and grows it never comes out like it starts because you learn a lot more as you get into the subtleties of it and you also find there's tremendous amount of trade-offs that you have to make.

There are certain things you can't make electrons do, certain things you can't make plastic or glass, certain things you can't make factories or robots do. and as you get into all these things, Designing a product involves juggling 5,000 different concepts, fitting them together like puzzle pieces, and exploring new ways to combine them. Every day brings new challenges and opportunities to push the boundaries of what's possible, and it's this ongoing process that is the key to successful product development. That process is the "magic"

Stupid ass nimble fucker of an old friend talks to me for a whole week after a reunion saying stuff like "I'm glad we got to spent time together bro and stuff", the soul eater of poop being sets up a conversation over a week talking like he was a true friend. He only had to manage it for a week more, hell he had to resist his urge for a puny ass week and I would've considered that maybe good people existed. Well the universe along with this Pseudo-panty fuck decided it was time, they pitch me an "idea". Well after demonstrating kindly that I could technically pull (n) such ideas from my virtual butthole. The guy finally believes his idea was stupid and moves away. A minute later. SURPRISE MOTHER FUCKER! he says, telling me that he got an amazing idea along and if I could help him with some stuff. Well.. What? I jumped at this amazing opportunity. Not because of the dangling-dickina of an idea, because this was my way out of this misery fucks life. Alright should buy me some time right? He would go watch some tutorials, make a logo and call me when there's a problem. We'll in the milli fucking time that even a big bang couldn't have recurred, the bitch calls and says.. Bro, sorry for disturbing you, I need some help... [What did your mother from another son tell you she only gave birth to half of you?]
APPARENTLY, THE GUY JOINED FORCES WITH SOME INTELLIGENT MINDS AND SETUP A LEAGUE OF LIKE MINDED NECROPHILES AND I COULD HELP THIS DREAM TEAM with a name and a logo.
It started, I could sense it. I wasn't THE CHOSEN ONE. Tired, I said I'll see what I can do while attempting to block his number. A few hours later, he calls from another number with no shame and asks BRO? DID YOU. Did me what you bloody dick lubricator. Yeah I watched your mom a couple times, then I got bored when I found out it was an ad.

Unfortunately no I did not tell that, instead I used the kindest words I could pull out of my frustrated ass to tell him I won't do it cause I have better things to do.

The guy comes back a few hours later with an emotional back-story of how this is his way out of his sad ass life and saying stuff like sorry to disturb you bro, I never meant to.

Oh my gawd! Give this douche manufacturer an Oscar. Actually give him two!!

————

After this traumatic experience I often feel for such people. They have around 90 years to live. They have a free fucking brain. They have money. They have less problems.

Why can't they come up with a worthy idea with all these factors to compound the ideation process.

And why on the earth can't they make the Idea on their own. I'm completely self taught so I don't see it being a problem. I could well say that I'm more knowledgeable than a few grads out of my stupid college but I don't wanna compare myself to those stupid beings.

If you have an idea? Make it. Die for it. But never approach another being, either he eats you or you eat him.

Me - sits down to code
Windows - need to install small update
Me - skip
Windows - HELL NO UPDATE
6 hours later.......
Update faild.

Hahah the other day I broke the bracket key on my keybord from pressing it while coding and had to buy a new one.
Everyone asked me how I broke the 0 key before the E.

Whenever I see job postings with salaries this low I always wonder exactly what's going through the minds of the people running the company.

Who in their right mind would want to spend 4+ years working hard on a CS degree only to be offered less than what the average retail manager earns? I barely afford a 1 bed flat share on this salary in my part of the country...

I'm starting to run into more and more job adverts like this. Why are companies working so hard to rip of graduates?

my first job is in a brand-new team, all team mate other than the manager are new grads from colleges. we r so engaged and dedicated our efforts to deliver something. and one day one of our team mate decided to resign due to family issues, we try our best throw him a farewell party, it is so emotional. now I have worked in a couple of teams, the spirit could not found after then.

What's up with recent Bootcamp grads putting themselves as "full stack engineer"s or "software engineer"s on LinkedIn when they haven't even had their first job yet? They build two projects and they think they are already engineers with zero relative job experience?

I don't get it.

When you spend hours trying to find a bug and when you finally do it's like the smallest error possible 😕😟😢😭

I've actually really enjoyed getting to interview people. Mostly because I'm given the freedom to ask reasonable questions. At this point, my favorite is asking fresh grads to come up with requirements to make their favorite portfolio bit production-ready.

I want a list of things you need to fix because they're duct tape and bubblegum, but a lot of people sit there with passwords in plaintext and suggest new features.

Hey DevRant fam,

I hope everyone is doing very well and of course staying safe, I just would like to share an experience I've had with an interview and would like some input and of course how you may have dealt with the situation,

I recently interviewed with a company that does Analytics consulting and are looking for grads - My gut feeling went warm as I walked into the office, was asked a nice first question such as "How is your day " etc, then was asked questions along the lines of:
"You seem to have finished your degree awhile ago, how are you making your money?"
"How many interviews are you having atm? How successful in each interview are you?" etc..
As I left my body felt very negative about the whole process... also I was only asked approx. < 5 questions, it felt like i was interviewing my interviewer - didn't feel good.

how would you go about this situation? curious to hear your thoughts! I very much appreciate you guys taking the time to respond and read my post. thank you <3 - this was organised through a recruitment firm btw.

So I work at a big IT company. Keep in mind you could say I'm lucky to be here my last job was as a mechanic. So they put me on this team filled with the most draining kunts I've ever seen.

I have been here for about a year and I am yet to be put on a project, so im just training. They asked me to get certified to be on a project which is complete bullshit because every other fuckwit is on a project and noone is certified.

ONTOP of this, there's no work to be done anyway, yet they keep hiring fucking Grads. LIKE FUCK OFF, get work for the rest of us first you fucking IDIOTS.

Anyway, the cert is the driest fucking content, like kill me now, I try to read about it and I just want to blow my fucking brains out.

Like is IT all like this? I used to work at a web design company and that shit was fucking fun, but paid like $2 an hour the cheap fucks.

Anyway that's my rant, I'm sitting my exam tomorrow for this cert and honestly, I don't even know why. I literally know ZERO. fucking going in to guess this shit. would rather go down to bunnings buy the coarsest piece of rope and just dangle like a fat dick.

Anyway cheers lads. have a great day

So true

It suck that you need experience to work.

Fuck that how about fresh grads? They need to work to get experience, but to work they need experience.

!dev

My Bros housemates make a mess but don't clean up and generally don't get along. What can he do? Too expensive to live by himself (California)

They're new grads, met somewhere, dunno the details, and decided to rent together earlier this year. He doesn't seem to be very social and just games in his free time...

I don't know how it's out there, but where I'm from, we don't get a lot of practical classes. The curriculum has tried to include practical alongside theory but its just not working. All we do is theory and more theory. Maybe include a major portion of marks for practicals rather than theory. And yes, please no coding in paper.

Another major thing we lack is teaching logical thinking. I have met final year under grads who find using a (!foo) to invert the value of foo mind blowing. They would rather use a full blown if-then statement to do the same. I think we need to incorporate chapters that motivates students into logical thinking to make better programmers.

Another essential part CS education around here lacks is in relevant examples and chances for internship. If you're studying something, I believe you would understand it much better if you see and experience it. Curriculum should include a real world project that you would use in a daily basis. Maybe break down and analyse a successful application and its component.

I like working my 10 hours a day. So for the 6 of them I want to pair program with my grads I expect them to be as focused as I am, actually even more, but 25 minutes into a session they just zoom out and start making jokes.

Setting up the meeting agenda in an accessible place (the same doc used for every recurring meeting which is accessible by everyone in the team) and having the calendar invite that goes to their emails... And guess what?
Those SCABBY NUMPTIES still find a way not to see the fucking video conference link (or sort out their calendar, they are freaking CS grads) and then proceed to spend at least half the meeting (and often showing up late) not having a clue what was expected of them...
YA DIMWIT!! EVERYTHING IS IN THE SAME DOCUMENT, AND YET YOU DIDN'T KNEW WHAT TASKS YOU HAD TO DO BEFORE, INCLUDING THE ONES YOU WERE TOLD TO DO WEEKS AGO???

They all have a BSc in CS (one of which has a MSc) and yet shit like this happens occasionally.

And that happened several times.

!rant apologies

I am a third year computer science student and I'm interested to see how professionals think I stack up against grads they have worked with straight from uni.

I have spent 15 months at a web company working on bespoke solo products on LAMP stacks. I know html, css, JavaScript and its library JQuery very well (I know JavaScript is massive to be saying I know it well)

I am reasonable at PHP and MySQL. Currently I am studying node.js and building an api that mashes up data from other APIs to build a new service. I'm also working on a C# Microsoft framework bespoke website. I know git to a reasonable level - branches, merges, rollbacks and all that jazz.

I am also studying development architectures to try and be more useful.

So if you guys came across a new grad that knew HTML, css, JavaScript, JQuery, maybe angular js, PHP, basic Linux commands, MySQL, C#, dev architectures, agile methods, node.js, git and has 15 months experience working on small to medium sized solo projects would you want to hire them?

Point to note I'll probably graduate first class (80%+) from a mid range uni.

Sorry, I know this is not the place but I like this community.

I feel bad for bootcampers. Their schools tell them to apply for a job even if they don’t have all the qualifications because they will learn on the job. That’s fine if you’re applying for an upgrade in the same career path. But when you’re changing careers, a lot of jobs don’t necessarily have time to invest in you like that.

I do have respect for those who DM me on Slack and ask if the job is open to new bootcamp grads. At least they are taking the initiative to ask and not sulking that they’re not good enough.

I tell them “this role requires experience in x. If you have that, then apply” because I don’t actually know they’re not qualified.

I was like them before. It’s hard to get the first job and sometimes it’s a lot of luck. But the first job will make getting the next one easier.

At least they’re not recruiters trying to convince me to pay them to fill the role.

Are there any recent grads that work remotely? How did you find/get the job? What kind of work do you do? I want to try working remotely after graduation.

Job hunting is a flippin' mess for entry level grads in ME. Ngl am considering applying for masters in a different country:/

Just wasted one hour on an employer info session. Can't understand why people ask stupid questions like "how is the work life balance?". Like those chosen representatives would tell the truth. Can't understand why those new grads working at the company would want to perpetuate the stupid interview process. "We want to hear how much you resent us while doing stupid white broad interview questions." Do they stream leetcode solving process to TikTok all day for work?

Every developer should get this app for a nostalgia moment
LowRes Coder by Timo Kloss