So, you start with a PHP website.

Nah, no hating on PHP here, this is not about language design or performance or strict type systems...

This is about architecture.

No backend web framework, just "plain PHP".

Well, I can deal with that. As long as there is some consistency, I wouldn't even mind maintaining a PHP4 site with Y2K-era HTML4 and zero Javascript.

That sounds like fucking paradise to me right now. 😍

But no, of course it was updated to PHP7, using Laravel, and a main.js file was created. GREAT.... right? Yes. Sure. Totally cool. Gotta stay with the times. But there's still remnants of that ancient framework-less website underneath. So we enter an era of Laravel + Blade templates, with a little sprinkle of raw imported PHP files here and there.

Fine. Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css. Whatever. I can still handle this. 🤨

But then the Frontend hipsters swoosh back their shawls, sip from their caramel lattes, and start whining: "We want React! We want SPA! No more BootstrapCSS, we're going to launch our own suite of SASS styles! IT'S BETTER".

OK, so we create REST endpoints, and the little monkeys who spend their time animating spinners to cover up all the XHR fuckups are satisfied. But they only care about the top most visited pages, so we ALSO need to keep our Blade templated HTML. We now have about 200 SPA/REST routes, and about 350 classic PHP/Blade pages.

So we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + React + SPA 😑

Now the Backend grizzlies wake from their hibernation, growling: We have nearly 25 million lines of PHP! Monoliths are evil! Did you know Netflix uses microservices? If we break everything into tiny chunks of code, all our problems will be solved! Let's use DDD! Let's use messaging pipelines! Let's use caching! Let's use big data! Let's use search indexes!... Good right? Sure. Whatever.

OK, so we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + React + SPA + Redis + RabbitMQ + Cassandra + Elastic 😫

Our monolith starts pooping out little microservices. Some polished pieces turn into pretty little gems... but the obese monolith keeps swelling as well, while simultaneously pooping out more and more little ugly turds at an ever faster rate.

Management rushes in: "Forget about frontend and microservices! We need a desktop app! We need mobile apps! I read in a magazine that the era of the web is over!"

OK, so we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + GraphQL + React + SPA + Redis + RabbitMQ + Google pub/sub + Neo4J + Cassandra + Elastic + UWP + Android + iOS 😠

"Do you have a monolith or microservices" -- "Yes"

"Which database do you use" -- "Yes"

"Which API standard do you follow" -- "Yes"

"Do you use a CI/building service?" -- "Yes, 3"

"Which Laravel version do you use?" -- "Nine" -- "What, Laravel 9, that isn't even out yet?" -- "No, nine different versions, depends on the services"

"Besides PHP, do you use any Python, Ruby, NodeJS, C#, Golang, or Java?" -- "Not OR, AND. So that's a yes. And bash. Oh and Perl. Oh... and a bit of LUA I think?"

2% of pages are still served by raw, framework-less PHP.

Well this old "Learn PHP4 in 24 hours" helps me put my little girl to sleep.

A CMS raping WordPress so hard up the ass till there is no tomorrow. I hate that bastardized piece of fuck. “Hey I want you to fix my page and its wordpress. I pay 20 bucks.“ Well fuck you too sir. Wordpress is no cms you wanna be coders. Get back to your fucking photoshop and design something original! Every fucking wp page looks the same. Every “nice feature“ is some kind of monkeypatched workarround. No problem i set preview pictures for every post just to enable some weird slider to function.

I also love those buttfucked files with just a “require foo“ which also just requires “bar“. Drop that fuck. Implement autoloading. Nobody uses php4 anymore step into the future. “easy to learn“ fuck me and fuck you untill you vomit jizz! Clusterfucked spaghetticode thats easy, easy to put another rotten load of clusterfuck on top. Also those security features. I put an empty index.php to prevent directory traversal. N I C E! Stop using wordpress as CMS, its a blog engine. Nothing great has every been written on top of wordpress and never will. I dare you to deny everything related to it and if you are one of those designer guyd, you can gargle my jizz you fucknut!

Starting 2017 i will start a counter and rape every 10th Wordpress which gets abused as cms i encounter into oblivion on their 0,99$ webhosting shit.

Fuck this I'm so mad about that crap

We got upgraded from PHP4 to 7 last night and everything went fine without a hitch....yet why do a have a chill up my spine writing this?

It's 5 AM and I don't want to shit on anybody's party but trust me when I say most of you here complaining about legacy code don't know the meaning of the word.

As someone who maintained a PHP4 codebase with an average file length of 3000+ lines for almost 4 years, I feel you, I feel your pain and your helplessness. But I've seen it all and I've done it all and unless you've witnessed your IDE struggle to highlight the syntax, unless you had to make regular changes in a test-less SVN's working copy that **is** the production and unless you are the reason that working copy exists because you've had enough of `new_2_old_final_newest.php` naming scheme, you do not know legacy. If you still don't believe me bare in mind I said "is" as in: "this system is still in production".

But also bare hope. Because as much grief as it cost me and countless before me, today of all days, without a warning, it got green lit for userbase migration to a newer platform. And if this 20 years of generous custom features and per client implemented services can be shut down even though it brings more profit than all the other products combined, so can happen to any of your projects. 🙏

Unfortunately, I do mean *any*.

When your boss tells you to work on legacy PHP4 codebase...

Code project in php4

When I was a wee little lad of 13, still with that hopeful gleam in my eye, I signed up to work as the webmaster for a local org.

At the time, I had played around with HTML and CSS and a little JavaScript, and I thought all I'd be doing was updating some pages with announcements or whatever

I got paid in SSL, which is a thing kids in Maryland have to do to graduate, and the whole idea is that you need to do 75 hours of volunteer work in your community

The people there promised me 8 hours a month for what I thought would be easy work, and so I eagerly signed up.

What I thought would be updating a few html files and emailing them to the org was actually having to manage a full on server running PHP4 LAMP stack

Needless to say, I was overwhelmed. I tried to make the updates they wanted, but I had no idea how to write PHP, let alone manage a database and server.

I think I got out of it by just never responding to their emails once I realized how fucked I was, but that was definitely the worst learning experience of my dev career

How I knew this was for me.... I didn't.
It kind of just happened in the natural order of things.

I was once a wii young lad who had a dream, and that dream became a smashing pile of being broke, jobless and unemployable, not a great way to start off that early life but hey, it was what it was.

So I looked at my computer one day, lousy dusty Pentium 4 with a massive 80GB HDD, in the corner, and went... fuck it, this thing is going to make me money.

So from there I picked up my old high school book on VB6 and on with it I went, forcing my self to make that calculator I couldn't do in school and a few other things, from there I got into a course for webDev, not uni, and after being dropped from that course ... that's a story for another time, I basically said fuck the system and my journey into webDev took on a life of its own.

Starting with frontend (back when layouts where tables and css was font colours) and IE5 was still a thing, and progressing into JS for a fucktonne of "onClick" events, then backend... I went down the .PHP3, PHP4 hadn't been released yet, but at the time .ASP was a thing too although it was complicated as fuck.

For many years it was just 1 thing after another, picking up MySQL, screwing around with databases, setting up linux servers, gobbling up Python a couple years later and started automating different things, just building site after site, until one day I landed a professional gig - not just casual freelance stuff, and from there when you think you know a lot, what I thought I knew got blown out the window and imposter syndrome sunk in, but I kept pushing ahead.

That saying "you don't know what you don't know", it has meaning here, you don't know what you don't know... but the moment you know you don't know enough, you either crumble or you keep waterboarding yourself in knowledge to reduce the unknown.

And somewhere along the line I accepted this path.
It may have taken me a few years to get off my feet but I'm glad I took that first step.

Working on a new payment gateway for one of my customers, and it turns out that instead of just specifying the parameters for what to include in the API call they want you to use their drop-in module for it...which is still written in PHP 4 and hasn't been updated since 2011. Also turns out that they only accept data formatted in XML.

Not insurmountable, but more than I feel like dealing with right this moment...

I'm really not sure. When I was 7-8 years old, I liked to view source in IE, then I somehow managed to use Javascript in the browser. First only some dumb opening of windows. And I liked Batch, so I made some files for copying, backup and stuff.

Then I got to PHP during the years from some online tutorial about making dynamic websites. My website was more static than stone, but yeah, I did page loading with PHP! Awful experience anyway, because I had to install Xampp, get it work and other stuff. 11 years old or so. (and I used Xampp only as a fileserver between laptop and desktop later, because.. PHP4... just no.)

As 12 years old or so I experienced my first World of Warcraft (vanilla) on a custom server in an internet cafe and I thought it's a singleplayer game. When I found out that no, I googled how to make my own server (hated multiplayer back then and loved good games with huge storylines). Failed miserably with ManGOS, got something to work with ArcEMU. There I learned some C++ basic stuff, which I hoped would helped me to fix some bugs. When I opened the code I was like: "Suuure." and left it like that. I learned what a MySQL database is, broke it like four times when I forgot WHERE and still rather played with websites i.e. html, css, js and optionally php when I wanted to repair a webpage for the server. With a friend we managed to get the server work via Hamachi, was fun, the server died too soon. Then I got ManGOS to work, but there wasn't really any interest to make a server anymore, just singleplayer for the lore. (big warcraft fan, don't kick me :D )

I think it was when I was 13y.o. I went to Delphi/Pascal course, which I liked a lot from the beginning, even managed to use my code on old Knoppix via Lazarus(Pascal). At this age I really liked thoae Flash games which were still common to see everywhere. So I downloaded .swfs, opened and tried to understand it. Managed to pull some stuff from it and rewrite in Pascal. Nope, never again that crap.

About the same time I got to Flash files I discovered Java. It was kind of popular back then, so I thought let's give it a try. I liked Flash more. Seriously. I've never seen so much repetitiveness and stupid styling of a code. I had either IDE for compiling C++ or Pascal or notepad! You think I wanted my code kicked all over the place in multiple folders and files? No.

So back to Pascal. I made some apps for my old hobby, was quite satisfied with the result (quiz like app), but it still wasn't the thing. And I really thought I'd like to study CS.

I started to love PHP because of phpBB forums I worked on as 15 y.o. I guess. At the same time I think there was an optional subject at school, again with Pascal. I hated the subject, teacher spoke some kind of gibberish I didn't really understand back then at all and now I find it only as a really stupid explanation of loops and strings.

So I started to hate Pascal subject, but not really the lang itself. Still I wanted something simpler and more portable. Then I got to Python as hm, 17y.o. I think and at the same time to C++ with DevC++. That was time when I was still deciding which lang to choose as my main one (still playing with website, database and js).

Then I decided that learning language from some teacher in a class seriously pisses me off and I don't want to experience it again. I choose Python, but still made some little scripts in C++, which is funny, because Python was considered only as a scripting lang back then.

I haven't really find a cross-platform framework for C++, which would: a) be easy to install b) not require VisualStudio PayForMe 20xy c) have nice license if I managed to make something nice and distribute it. I found Unity3D though, so I played with Blender for models, Audacity for music and C# for code. Only beautiful memories with Unity. I still haven't thought I'm a programmer back then.

For Python however I found Kivy and I was playing with it on a phone for about a year. Still I haven't really know what to do back then, so I thought... I like math, numbers, coding, but I want to avoid studying physics. Economics here I go!

Now I'm in my third year at Uni, should be writing thesis, study hard and what I do? Code like never before, contribute, work on a 3D tutorial and play with Blender. Still I don't really think about myself as a programmer, rather hobby-coder.

So, to answer the question: how did I learn to program? Bashing to shit until it behaved like I desired i.e. try-fail learning. I wouldn't choose a different path.

So I was playing with Gboard and decided to do a thing only with it's autosuggestions. This was a part of what I wrote with it "my friend says PHP4 I will throw it out of my system"

We can now conclude Google isn't as bad as we thought it was.

In elementary school, when I got my first computer (a 286 with b/w monitor and a whopping 8mhz), I discovered that a .bat file was nothing more than a set of instructions.

So my first "programs" where nothing more than .bat files. Then, at summer camp, one of the instructors noticed I was kind of a nerd, so he introduced me to QBasic. Later on, a friend of my mother showed me Turbo Pascal 6.0. So I was already creating games when I left elementary school.

Then, on secondary school, I stopped most of my programming stuff and was mostly interested in drawing and making music.

But, on college I rediscovered programming with Flash, HTML, PHP and Director. This was around the time that AS2 and PHP4 were still cool.

Later on, in university, I became nerd full on, but still the main focus on web development.

When I was little, my father told me about this thing he did when he was younger, he could tell a computer what to do, programming, and he promised me one day he'll teach me how to do it myself, but that day never came. A few years later, at age 10, I went to a "technology" summer camp, where one topic was programming in Processing, and I was really excited to do it, so excited and interested, that the place where I did I'd accepted me in their Coderdojo​ without having to wait the list (kinda cheating).There I learned Processing for three years, and how to use GitHub, until last year I decided to become a "teacher" myself (the topics we dealt with were really basic, and there were only beginners).
Other things I did is showing the people of my class how to program in TI-BASIC with our schools calculators, because, as they say, teaching is the best way to learn.
This course we started informatics at school, but the teacher isn't really an expert, and the few things he knows (apart from php4) I teached him.
I'm now constantly learning new things by Googling them and setting high goals for myself.

Internal monitoring dashboard that was made in PHP4 that was really slow (even for PHP4 standards) due to doing a lot of unnecessary things.
Fully uncommented, fully undocumented elsewhere, massive fustercluck of code.
Had to change at least 300 methods in order to make is somewhat run decent (sadly, I wasn't allowed to just rewrite from scratch, which would have been a lot faster)...

Just your regular SNAFU.

Why the hell is someone still using php4? For real, is there any reason to make a new website with that 2008 built php?

What do you call a dev who still writes PHP4 code in 2016?

What is everyones opinions on declaring class constructors as 'final'?
Could use some feedback experience, pros/cons?

I'm building a hobby MVC-like framework inspired by OpenCart, where the default controller method is "index" rather then "__construct"

Keep in mind i'm only writing code towards the latest supported PHP versions, so PHP4 style constructors are not of concern.