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Search - "dynamic typing"
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Sometimes I feel like a freak. So many rants are about things that just never seen to happen to me.
I've been using Windows 10 since release, never had an update while I was working.
I've never gotten a virus from an ad, abs don't use AdBlock.
I've never had a crash that lost my work, I save neurotically or the program automatically saved.
I've never had trouble with typing in any language, static or dynamic.
I've never had issues with semicolons, IDEs or compilers tell me the issue explicitly.
I guess I'm just weird or something :/15 -
I'm currently rewriting perfectly clean and functioning Scala code in Java (because "Enterprise", yay). The amount of unnecessary boilerplate I have to add is insane. I'm not even talking big complicated code but two liners or the lack of simple things like a range from 5 to 10.
Why do I have to write
List<Position> occupiedPositions = placedEntities.stream()
.flatMap((pe) -> pe.occupiedPositions().stream())
.collect(Collectors.toList());
instead of simply
val occupiedPositions = placedEntities.flatMap(_.occupiedPositions)
Why on earth does `occupiedPositions.distinct` suddenly become a monstrosity like `occupiedPositions.stream().distinct().collect(Collectors.toList())` where the majority of code is pure boilerplate? And this is supposed to be the new and better Java8 api which people use as evidence that Java is now suddenly "functional" (yeah no, just no).
Why do APIs that annotate parameters with @Nullable throw NullPointerExceptions when I pass a null? Why does the compiler not help prevent such stupidity? Why do we use static typing PLUS those annotations and it still crashes at runtime like every damn dynamic, interpreted language out there? That's not unfortunate, it's a complete waste of time.
Why is a simple idea like a range from x to 10 (in scala literally `x to 10`) not by default included in Java? There's Guava's version of Range which does not have a helper for integer ranges (even though they are the most used ones). Then there's apache.commons version which _has_ a helper for integers, but is strangely not iterable (wtf I don't even...).
Speaking of Iterable: How difficult could it be to convert an abstract Iterable<T> into a concrete List<T>? In scala it's surprisingly `someIterable.toList`. I found nothing like that so I took to stackoverflow where I found a thread in which people suggested everything from writing your own ListUtils helper class, using Guava (which is a huge dependency!) to using the new Java8 features inline (which is still about three lines long). I didn't know this was such a hard problem in computer science, TIL.
How anyone can be productive in this abomination of a language is beyond me now, even though I've used it for many years while learning to code (back then I didn't know there were much better ways to do things). The only good part is that I have to endure this nonsense for only about 3 days longer then I'm free again!12 -
It was not me doing the screaming but one of my colleagues. He is a super programmer and joined our team early this year as my partner on frontend development.
We're a React/React Native dev house and he has always been uncomfortable with how loose it goes here because of dynamic typing. He has been advocating typescript and Angular since he started and I even allowed him to use typescript on one of the projects.
A month back I started to make jokes about how dead angular was (trigger alert) and he almost lost it. We are good friends so he as been taking it in good spirits.
Last week our boss allowed him a chance to propose a Tech stack for a new project. Naturally he started comparing Angular vs React. I chime in to trigger him again with "why would we work with a bloated zombie framework", he picked up his chair and almost threw it at me while screaming " React is just hacky ". I was laughing so hard and in the end we both did some research. We are proposing Jquery to our boss... (Evil laugh)1 -
Fuck you haters, I'm not dying of corona so PHP dies with it.
PHP is an amazing language. It has evolved nicely has almost all high performing functionally you need build in. Has a good package manager eco system. It's insanely fast (since 7.0, older versions where just fast with opcache).
Most of the called out inconsistencies are actually because it is consistently following C/POSIX equivalent or people that don't understand dynamic typing (it doesn't mean any shit will stick).
https://awesomeopensource.com/proje...
Fuck off with your JS backend solution because it's faster...
This is a big thanks to all the amazing members of the PHP community that worked hard to make PHP the great language it is today!!!82 -
Everyone talks about their hate of js but like python is honestly just as bad.
- shitty package manager,
* need to recreate python environments to keep workflows seperate as oppose to just mapping dependencies like in maven, npm, cargo, go-get
* Can't fix python version number to project I.e specify it in requirements
- dynamic typing that gets fixed with shitty duck typing too many times
- no first class functions
- limited lambda expressions
- def def def
- overly archaic error messages, rarely have I gotten a good error message and didn't have to dive into package code to figure it out
- people still use 2.7 ... Honestly I blame the difficulty of changing versions for this. It's just not trivial to even specify another python version
- inconsistent import system. When in module use . When outside don't.
- SLOW so SLOW
- BLOCKING making things concurrent has only recently got easier, but it still needs lots of work. Like it would be nice to do
runasync some_async_fcn()
Or just running asynchronous functions on the global scope will make it know to go to some default runtime. Or heck. Just let me run it like that...
- private methods aren't really private. They just hide them in intelisense but you can still override them....
I know my username is ironic :P11 -
Developers created IDEs with intelligent code completion and languages provide users with an annotation syntax to document their methods.
And then there is Python, nuking all the efforts of our ancestors by dynamic typing. And they are smug enough to call this laziness duck typing. "If it squawks like a duck, swims like a duck, walks like a duck its a duck".
Shit no, it ain't a duck because a fucking goose does all the same but is a mean bastard compared to a duck. You might pet a duck but only the craziest will attempt to pet a goose.
Fuck python and undocumented methods in particular!5 -
Dynamically typed languages suck. God I hate them
It's like one big clunky free for all. I don't understand how people can work in Python or even JavaScript and tell me that they're good languages with a straight face
Not having proper autocomplete or documentation (a somewhat seperate issue of Python) is a kick in the stomach for productivity.
I've seen people advocate for using EXTERNAL DOCUMENTATION VIEWERS. WHAT
I hate not being able to enforce types so I can reason about little parts of my program. I hate not having an IDE that can actually help me. I hate having to see stupid grep'ed code snippets instead of nicely formatted javadocs. I hate having to double and triple check everything when trying to code. I hate handling effectively opaque values where I don't know anything about the type without looking it up. And I especially hate not knowing what types function parameters need to be.
Dynamic typing doesn't remove types. That, although completely unfeasible, I could respect.
Oh no, the types are still there. Just not for you
It's like solving a jigsaw puzzle with a blindfold on56 -
Why I don't use Stack Overflow 99% of the time:
Me: I'm not a ruby developer, but I have to write a small script in ruby. I ran into a problem where i'm getting behavior I don't expect. I have a method which expects an array, and when multiple items are passed into it from the command line parser, behaves appropriately, but when only one command line argument is passed, the method breaks because it was passed a single element, not an array of one element. Here's my code, how do I get my desired behavior?
Most highly voted answer: your problem is your passing it a single element and not an array
Question downvoted into oblivion. As if i'm a pleb for not immediately having a perfect grasp of dynamic typing because when I have the choice I stick with strong nominative typing.8 -
When I was in college OOP was emerging. A lot of the professors were against teaching it as the core. Some younger professors were adamant about it, and also Java fanatics. So after the bell rang, they'd sometimes teach people that wanted to learn it. I stayed after and the professor said that object oriented programming treated things like reality.
My first thought to this was hold up, modeling reality is hard and complicated, why would you want to add that to your programming that's utter madness.
Then he started with a ball example and how some balls in reality are blue, and they can have a bounce action we can express with a method.
My first thought was that this seems a very niche example. It has very little to do with any problems I have yet solved and I felt thinking about it this way would complicate my programs rather than make them simpler.
I looked around the at remnants of my classmates and saw several sitting forward, their eyes lit up and I felt like I was in a cult meeting where the head is trying to make everyone enamored of their personality. Except he wasn't selling himself, he was selling an idea.
I patiently waited it out, wanting there to be something of value in the after the bell lesson. Something I could use to better my own programming ability. It never came.
This same professor would tell us all to read and buy gang of four it would change our lives. It was an expensive hard cover book with a ribbon attached for a bookmark. It was made to look important. I didn't have much money in college but I gave it a shot I bought the book. I remember wrinkling my nose often, reading at it. Feeling like I was still being sold something. But where was the proof. It was all an argument from authority and I didn't think the argument was very good.
I left college thinking the whole thing was silly and would surely go away with time. And then it grew, and grew. It started to be impossible to avoid it. So I'd just use it when I had to and that became more and more often.
I began to doubt myself. Perhaps I was wrong, surely all these people using and loving this paradigm could not be wrong. I took on a 3 year project to dive deep into OOP later in my career. I was already intimately aware of OOP having to have done so much of it. But I caught up on all the latest ideas and practiced them for a the first year. I thought if OOP is so good I should be able to be more productive in years 2 and 3.
It was the most miserable I had ever been as a programmer. Everything took forever to do. There was boilerplate code everywhere. You didn't so much solve problems as stuff abstract ideas that had nothing to do with the problem everywhere and THEN code the actual part of the code that does a task. Even though I was working with an interpreted language they had added a need to compile, for dependency injection. What's next taking the benefit of dynamic typing and forcing typing into it? Oh I see they managed to do that too. At this point why not just use C or C++. It's going to do everything you wanted if you add compiling and typing and do it way faster at run time.
I talked to the client extensively about everything. We both agreed the project was untenable. We moved everything over another 3 years. His business is doing better than ever before now by several metrics. And I can be productive again. My self doubt was over. OOP is a complicated mess that drags down the software industry, little better than snake oil and full of empty promises. Unfortunately it is all some people know.
Now there is a functional movement, a data oriented movement, and things are looking a little brighter. However, no one seems to care for procedural. Functional and procedural are not that different. Functional just tries to put more constraints on the developer. Data oriented is also a lot more sensible, and again pretty close to procedural a lot of the time. It's just odd to me this need to separate from procedural at all. Procedural was very honest. If you're a bad programmer you make bad code. If you're a good programmer you make good code. It seems a lot of this was meant to enforce bad programmers to make good code. I'll tell you what I think though. I think that has never worked. It's just hidden it away in some abstraction and made identifying it harder. Much like the code methodologies themselves do to the code.
Now I'm left with a choice, keep my own business going to work on what I love, shift gears and do what I hate for more money, or pivot careers entirely. I decided after all this to go into data science because what you all are doing to the software industry sickens me. And that's my story. It's one that makes a lot of people defensive or even passive aggressive, to those people I say, try more things. At least then you can be less defensive about your opinion.53 -
Typescript seems like such overkill, but then you need to refactor your code and hit a bunch of issues in production. I don't think I'll ever go without typescript again. Fuck dynamic typing, it doesn't scale5
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Dear devs,
I’ve been seeing a lot of comments bashing python. I’d like to know the moment when you went “wow fuck this shit” with python.
My biggest gripe is in large ish projects, because of the dynamic typing things are so hard to debug and narrow down. If it had static typing then python would be the best, but then if it had it it wouldn’t be python in the first place I’d venture.
Go!18 -
who invented goddamned dynamic typing
its over one hour and i cant find myself in this goddamn object
GODDAMN JS1 -
I want to explain to people like ostream (aka aviophille) why JS is a crap language. Because they apparently don't know (lol).
First I want to say that JS is fine for small things like gluing some parts togeter. Like, you know, the exact thing it was intended for when it was invented: scripting.
So why is it bad as a programming language for whole apps or projects?
No type checks (dynamic typing). This is typical for scripting languages and not neccesarily bad for such a language but it's certainly bad for a programming language.
"truthy" everything. It's bad for readability and it's dangerous because you can accidentaly make unwanted behavior.
The existence of == and ===. The rule for many real life JS projects is to always use === to be more safe.
In general: The correct thing should be the default thing. JS violates that.
Automatic semicolon insertion can cause funny surprises.
If semicolons aren't truly optional, then they should not be allowed to be omitted.
No enums. Do I need to say more?
No generics (of course, lol).
Fucked up implicit type conversions that violate the principle of least surprise (you know those from all the memes).
No integer data types (only floating point). BigInt obviously doesn't count.
No value types and no real concept for immutability. "Const" doesn't count because it only makes the reference immutale (see lack of value types). "Freeze" doesn't count since it's a runtime enforcement and therefore pretty useless.
No algebraic types. That one can be forgiven though, because it's only common in the most modern languages.
The need for null AND undefined.
No concept of non-nullability (values that can not be null).
JS embraces the "fail silently" approach, which means that many bugs remain unnoticed and will be a PITA to find and debug.
Some of the problems can and have been adressed with TypeScript, but most of them are unfixable because it would break backward compatibility.
So JS is truly rotten at the core and can not be fixed in principle.
That doesn't mean that I also hate JS devs. I pity your poor souls for having to deal with this abomination of a language.
It's likely that I fogot to mention many other problems with JS, so feel free to extend the list in the comments :)
Marry Christmas!34 -
So I am interning at this company, and I am Coding in Go.
Now I don't have much exp with go so I'm learning it, and all of my team is cool cause they also had to learn Go. Anyways I am just petty intern-dev so everyone and everything is cool.
Migrating from python to go is quite hard.
Unlearn, You must.
What I have imagined Go, to be is:
While python has this top down approach to inheritance and polymorphism, Go has bottom up approach.
In Python child classes are derived from parent class but In Go child classes create a parent class. (this might be totally wrong, but that's how I've imagined golang)
Go is static wrt dynamic python.
I have coded in C for 1.5 years then I switched to python, so I feel that am familiar with static typing. The path that lies ahead of me shouldn't be too hard.
I would like to take a step further and say that Golang is C, but with modern syntax/semantics. It derives many of its features from newer langs like js, Python, etc while being a compiled language which translated directly to machine code.
That's all 😊
My team members are really great and supportive, I am about 10 years younger than them but we still connect and sync.
Everything is Great, Life is Good ❤️2 -
Today's rant: JavaScript's type system.
I realized halfway through that I can't happily call JavaScript a "programming language" so just assume
alias programming="scripting"
I'm sure it's not actually as frustrating as it seems to me. Thing is, I'm used to either statically-typed languages or dynamically-typed languages that actually make sense. If I were to try to add an integer to something I'd forgotten was a string in Python, it'd immediately tell me "look, buddy, do you want me to treat this as a concatenation or an addition? I have no idea the way you've got this written." I've found that mistakes are a common thing with dynamic typing. Maybe I'm just not experienced enough yet, maybe it's really as stupid as it looks. JavaScript just goes "hey look I'm gonna tack all of these guys together and make a weird franken-string like '$NaN34.$&' because that's absolutely what we want here!" Then I run my webpage and instead of a nice numeric total like I wanted, good old JavaScript just went "Yep, I have no idea what I'm doing here I'm just gonna drop this here and pretend it's right." Now absolutely I do not expect my programming language to make correct assumptions and read my mind, otherwise JavaScript would be programming me and not the other way around. But it could at least let me know that I had incompatible types going on rather than just shamelessly going along with what it's doing. Good GRIEF, man, some of the idiosyncrasies of the EMCAScript language definition itself just make me want to punch a horse.6 -
I've spent a lot of time messing around with C, having struggled with object-oriented programming (due to not really knowing how best to structure things, not knowing when to apply certain design patterns).
When writing C code, I'd write OOP-esque code (pass around a struct to routines to do things with it) and enjoyed just making things happen without having to think too much about the overall design. But then I'd crave being able to use namespaces, and think about how the code would be tidier if I used exceptions instead of having every routine return an error code...
Working with Python and Node over the past couple of years has allowed me to easily get into OOP (no separate declaration/definition, loose typing etc.) and from that I've made some fairly good design decisions. I'd implemented a few design patterns without even realising which patterns they were - later reading up on them and thinking "hey, that's what I used earlier!"
I've also had a bit of an obsession with small executable files - using templates and other features of C++ add some bloat (on Windows at least) compared to C. There were other gripes I had with C++, mostly to do with making things modular (dynamic linking etc.) but really it's irrelevant/unreasonable.
And yes, for someone who doesn't like code bloat, working with Node is somewhat ironic... (hello, node_modules...)
So today I decided to revisit C++ and dust off my old copy of C++ in a Nutshell, and try to see if I could write some code to do things that I struggled with before. One nice thing is that this book was printed in 2003, yet all of its content is still relevant. Of course, there are newer C++ standards, but I can happily just hack away and avoid using anything that has been deprecated.
One thing I've always avoided is dynamic_cast because every time I read about it, I read that "it's slow". So I just tried to work around it when really if it's the right tool for the job, I might as well use it... It's really useful!
Anyway, now I've typed all this positivity about C++ I will probably find a little later on that I hit a wall with what I'm doing and give up again... :p7 -
Oh my god, GDScript is the single biggest piece of shit scripting language I have ever witnessed. It somehow manages to combine the very worst things of dynamic typing with the downsides of static typing, all in one bundle of utter shit
Imagine you have two game object scripts that want to reference each other, e.g. by calling each others methods.
Well you're outta fucking luck because scripts CANNOT have cyclic references. Not even fucking *type hints* can be cyclic between scripts. Okay no problem, since GDScript is loosely based of Python I can surely just call my method out of the blue without type hints and have it look it up by name. Nope! Not even with the inefficient as fuck `call` method that does a completely dynamic-at-runtime fuck-compile-time-we-script-in-this-bitch function call can find the function. Why? Because the variable that holds a reference to my other script is assumed to be of type Node. The very base class of everything
So not only is the optional typing colossal garbage. You cant even do a fucking dynamic function call because this piece of shit is just C++ in Pyhtons clothing. And nothing against C++ (first time I said that). At least c++ lets me call a fucking function8 -
Today in Rust I defined a function that takes Any and returns Any specifically so that parametric types turned into trait objects of this trait can still receive commands without having to know their concrete type.
Bridging static and dynamic typing is one hell of an exercise.8 -
You can say you know a computer language to a decent level when you can in fact make useful programs with it.
For example, I can say I know JavaScript to a basic level. I know its basic core functionality by heart (which can't be said for some people I know), such as:
- it manipulates the DOM, the DOM has Element, Nodes, TextNodes (all to be found on W3C documents with its own specs)
- useful functions are:
getElementById()
getElementsByClassName()
Also knowing that these return either HTMLElementCollection or NodeCollection because you have to iterate over it differently then
- element.textContent
- == and ===
- dynamic typing
- closures
- avoid global variables
- nodes have parentNodes
- isNaN, undefined
- arr.push()
- arguments don't have explicit types defined
- etc.
Using this knowledge I built an antispam script for a particular server. It's good to know the model of a language, that it sits in your head and that you can use and understand the constructs when you want and how you want.1 -
Static typing : one boyfriend/girlfriend is enough for me
Dynamic typing : prostitute/womanizing mode activated (i have the right to fuck who ever i want) -
Every once in a while the flexibility of dynamic types comes back and bites you in the ars:
So I created method that returns the date significance (day, month, year) or null when no date is set.
I chose a class constant DAY with the value 0.
This is not a problem in if statements as I always use === but in this case a switch made more sense. And as you can guess no date set (NULL) was handled in the self::DAY (0) case... 😐😑😶 Silently resulting in wrong results when no date is given! #£#@$& (and other comic swearing symbols)
Even though php7 finally has decent type hinting resulting in much clearer defined API's we can still go very wrong.
More love to Go for less verbose static typing! To bad we can rarely use it at the office 😥2 -
In my opinion people hate JavaScript just because it's different from other languages.
Why people hate coercion? It's useful if you know how to use it. Or dynamic typing.
What's your opinion about?5 -
Let's say you're pretty good frontend dev, a bet geeky about strong typing. And you're paired with an API backend, and it's PHP. You would think it's pain when it's bad PHP. No, real pain is when it's good PHP, and backend dev embraces and uses dynamic nature of the language to an extreme.3
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So dynamic typing means you can just add members to objs on the fly?
But why hadn't I noticed that before giving a long lecture about classes being "molds that we cast objects in"?
Ah, yeah. That's because I'm just learning it at the same time.33 -
Problems with Dynamic typing (eyyy JS)
0 < undefined // false
0 == undefined // false
0 > undefined // false6 -
So, guys, I'm wondering if someone can help me wkth this thing. I'm sorta newish to programming and was searching up different kinds of typing. Basically what I found was:
Strong: Variables are explicitly declared, can only be changed to values of that type
Weak: Variables are implicitly typed, can accept any value of any type.
However, upon searching static and dynamic, it says the same things for dynamic and weak, and for static and strong. Can anyone help me by telling me the dofference between these (if you even understood this post 😅)
Thanks5 -
!rant One of the better refactoring insights I've heard today: "With great power comes great responsibility".
Just because a language may not care about certain constructs, doesn't mean you should be relaxed about them (e.g. weak/dynamic typing/not caring about (variable name) consistency).3 -
Worst / best feature of any language:
Lack of / requirement of strict / dynamic / weak / strong typing. Just typing. Typing typing typing just typing.
Having to specify the type in C/++/#, Java/Kotlin is so annoying and delays the project so much by having to do declare weird classes with 3 or 4 fields just because you need it in this tiny line of code.
Not having good type support in JavaScript and Python is a pain in the eyes when you can't find what type each variable is, or when you pass a wrong argument to a function, and when you do, it shows the definition for the type in a .ty or.pyi file and not the definition itself which you have to find elsewhere. Spent half of my uni exams trying to decipher the type while it could've been a piece of cake if you just knew the type.
Love / hate relationship 😝1 -
Does anyone here prefer dynamic languages for large scale projects?
If so, have you looked into Crystal? Why would you prefer Ruby over Crystal? (Nearly or exactly identical code but one is supported by static typing) -
#Suphle Rant 6: Deptrac, phparkitect
This entry isn't necessarily a rant but a tale of victory. I'm no more as sad as I used to be. I don't work as hard as I used to, so lesser challenges to frustrate my life. On top of that, I'm not bitter about the pace of progress. I'm at a state of contentment regarding Suphle's release
An opportunity to gain publicity presented itself last month when cfp for a php event was announced last month. I submitted and reviewed a post introducing suphle to the community. In the post, I assured readers that I won't be changing anything soon ie the apis are cast in stone. Then php 7.4 officially "went out of circulation". It hit me that even though the code supports php 8 on paper, it's kind of a red herring that decorators don't use php 8 attributes. So I doubled down, suspending documentation.
The container won't support union and intersection types cuz I dislike the ambiguity. Enums can't be hydrated. So I refactored implementation and usages of decorators from interfaces to native attributes. Tried automating typing for all class properties but psalm is using docblocks instead of native typing. So I disabled it and am doing it by hand whenever something takes me to an unfixed class (difficulty: 1). But the good news is, we are php 8 compliant as anybody can ask for!
I decided to ride that wave and implement other things that have been bothering me:
1) 2 commands for automating project setup for collaborators and user facing developers (CHECK)
2) transferring some operations from runtime to compile/build TIME (CHECK)
3) re-attempt implementing container scopes
I tried automating Deptrac usage ie adding the newly created module to the list of regulated architectural layers but their config is in yaml, so I moved to phparkitect which uses php to set the rules. I still can't find a library for programmatically updating php filed/classes but this is more dynamic for me than yaml. I set out to implement their library, turns out the entire logic is dumped into the command class, so I can neither control it without the cli or automate tests to it. I take the command apart, connect it to suphle and run. Guess what, it detects class parents as violations to the rule. Wtflyingfuck?!
As if that's not bad enough, roadrunner (that old biatch!) server setup doesn't fail if an initialization script fails. If initialization script is moved to the application code itself, server setup crumbles and takes the your initialization stuff down with it. I ping the maintainer, rustacian (god bless his soul), who informs me point blank that what I'm trying to do is not possible. Fuck it. I have to write a wrapper command for sequentially starting the server (or not starting if initialization operations don't all succeed).
Legitimate case to reinvent the wheel. I restored my deleted decorators that did dependency sanitation for me at runtime. The remaining piece of the puzzle was a recursive film iterator to feed the decorators. I checked my file system reader for clues on how to implement one and boom! The one I'd written for two other features was compatible. All I had to do was refactor decorators into dependency rules, give them fancy interfaces for customising and filtering what classes each rule should actually evaluate. In a night's work (if you're discrediting how long writing the original sanitization decorators and directory iterator), I coupled the Deptrac/phparkitect library of my dreams. This is one of the those few times I feel like a supreme deity
Hope I can eat better and get some sleep. This meme is me after getting bounced by those three library rejections