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Search - "fixed price"
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I'm seriously considering never doing fixed rate projects for clients ever again. The conversation will likely go like this, though:
"How much to build my website?"
"$100/hour."
"Sorry, I don't think you heard me correctly. I asked how much to build the whole website."
"$150/hour"
"Wait, you changed the rate! Why won't you give me a fixed cost?"
"Why won't you pay me for my time?"
"Because I can get it done for a cheaper fixed cost somewhere else!"
"But how do you know that's actually cheaper?"
"What do you mean?"
"We pad fixed price projects precisely because we fear not being fully paid for our time."
"Oh."16 -
8 rules of freelancing which newbie should know:
Rule 1: never pick up a half done website.
Rule 2: never take a job where they want to "do things themselves". And don't work with fixed prices if you calculate your price on a best case scenario.
Rule 3: don't do content management
Rule 4: don't promise a sales target on their website.
Rule 5: start sending invoices every money and not just at the end of the project.
Rule 6: Put every website on your own webserver and don't release it untill it's paid.
Rule 7: Don't work for free.
Rule 8: Don't work for free.
Credit: Jhon Dear5 -
🍿🍿 pull up a chair and get comfy. This was a few years ago and anger has filled some details, so bear with me...
One day, during one of rare afternoons off of work, I was in the library to work on a group project for school. This was maybe a month before it was due, so we were tracking for decent progress and one less stressor over finals. It was about 80° F out, with the perfect breeze for the beach, but school comes first.
I'm team lead (which is terrifying, but less important) and my bro C shows up early to be ready to go on time because he's professional. I'M SO BAD I FORGOT DOUCHEBAGS NAME, so he's A (for asshole), shows up AN HOUR AND 15 MINUTES LATE. But it's not the end of the world, C and I worked around our database schema (which A sent us and we approved), so we could iron out kinks as we went.
A gets there... Fucking finally.
Fucker didn't have the database built (had 2 months to do it, we all agreed on schema a month prior. We're trying to be the adults our ages claim is to be).
*breathe in, count to 10* not a problem, A, just go ahead and start it now so we can at least check what we have.
Ok, my queen, I'll have it done in 10 minutes...
🤔🤔
We needed an id (sku... Which, in 99.9999% of companies is numeric), a short name (xBox one, Macbook, don't smart tv), a description and a price (with 2 decimals). All approved by all 3 of us.
His sku ranges from 3 to 9 ALPHA NUMERIC CHARACTERS, the names were even more generic than expected (item1, item 2, Item_3), no description, and he somehow thought US currency had 5 decimal places!!! (it's more accurate...)
There was an epic, royal, and expensive fight scene in the library (may have been during the Lenten season I decided to give up caffeine AND fast for 40 days to prove a point to an ass wipe of a history teacher, don't recall). I made him cry, he failed the class because C and I wound up fixing everything he touched (graded by commits, because it was also an intro to git, but also, a classmate saw it all), and I had to buy multiple people coffee for yelling in the library.
A tried making out buttons work (I was fed up and done thinking for the day, so moved to documentation), but he fucked those up. I then made those worse by having nested buttons, but I deleted all his shit and started over and fixed it.
I then cried, but C and I survived and have each others backs still.11 -
Most satisfying bug I've fixed?
Fixed a n+1 issue with a web service retrieving price information. I initially wrote the service, but it was taken over by a couple of 'world class' monday-morning-quarterbacks.
The "Worst code I've ever seen" ... "I can't believe this crap compiles" types that never met anyone else's code that was any good.
After a few months (yes months) and heavy refactoring, the service still returned price information for a product. Pass the service a list of product numbers, service returns the price, availability, etc, that was it.
After a very proud and boisterous deployment, over the next couple of days the service seemed to get slower and slower. DBAs started to complain that the service was causing unusually high wait times, locks, and CPU spikes causing problems for other applications. The usual finger pointing began which ended up with "If PaperTrail had written the service 'correctly' the first time, we wouldn't be in this mess."
Only mattered that I initially wrote the service and no one seemed to care about the two geniuses that took months changing the code.
The dev manager was able to justify a complete re-write of the service using 'proper development methodologies' including budgeting devs, DBAs, server resources, etc..etc. with a projected year+ completion date.
My 'BS Meter' goes off, so I open up the code, maybe 5 minutes...tada...found it. The corresponding stored procedure accepts a list of product numbers and a price type (1=Retail, 2=Dealer, and so on). If you pass 0, the stored procedure returns all the prices.
Code basically looked like this..
public List<Prices> GetPrices(List<Product> products, int priceTypeId)
{
foreach (var item in products)
{
List<int> productIdsParameter = new List<int>();
productIdsParameter.Add(item.ProductID);
List<Price> prices = dataProvider.GetPrices(productIdsParameter, 0);
foreach (var price in prices)
{
if (price.PriceTypeID == priceTypeId)
{
prices = dataProvider.GetPrices(productIdsParameter, price.PriceTypeID);
return prices;
}
* Omitting the other 'WTF?' code to handle the zero price type
}
}
}
I removed the double stored procedure call, updated the method signature to only accept the list of product numbers (which it was before the 'major refactor'), deployed the service to dev (the issue was reproducible in our dev environment) and had the DBA monitor.
The two devs and the manager are grumbling and mocking the changes (they never looked, they assumed I wrote some threading monstrosity) then the DBA walks up..
DBA: "We're good. You hit the database pretty hard and the CPU never moved. Execution plans, locks, all good to go."
<dba starts to walk away>
DevMgr: "No fucking way! Putting that code in a thread wouldn't have fix it"
Me: "Um, I didn't use threads"
Dev1: "You had to. There was no way you made that code run faster without threads"
Dev2: "It runs fine in dev, but there is no way that level of threading will work in production with thousands of requests. I've got unit tests that prove our design is perfect."
Me: "I looked at what the code was doing and removed what it shouldn't be doing. That's it."
DBA: "If the database is happy with the changes, I'm happy. Good job. Get that service deployed tomorrow and lets move on"
Me: "You'll remove the recommendation for a complete re-write of the service?"
DevMgr: "Hell no! The re-write moves forward. This, whatever you did, changes nothing."
DBA: "Hell yes it does!! I've got too much on my plate already to play babysitter with you assholes. I'm done and no one on my team will waste any more time on this. Am I clear?"
Seeing the dev manager face turn red and the other two devs look completely dumbfounded was the most satisfying bug I've fixed.5 -
Client: Hey. So. LOVE your work. Got my computer repaired at your place a few weeks ago. And you guys did a GREAT job. But noooooow...my phone is acting up. Can you fix it?
Me: Why yes! We can! It will be ________! Keep in mind, the price includes all labor and comes with a three month warranty!
Client: But you said the last time I was there I had a warranty. Why isn't my phone covered under warranty?
Me: because the warranty only covers your computer issue that we fixed.
Client: BUT YOU SAID I HAD A WARRANTY!!!!!
It was at that moment I wanted nothing more than to sink into the wall behind me and wash my hands of this insanity.5 -
I hate doing estimates, but I had to adapt. Since I work remotely and under contract, I'm used to track my time and estimate by hours.
I did a lot of mistakes before, which means I worked for free to wrap up fixed price projects.
Today, the method that is working best for me is:
1) positive estimate
2) most likely estimate
3) worst case estimate
Sum up and divide by 3.
I do this for every task.
Also, for Web projects, I like to divide tasks in categories like: HTML / CSS, UX, programming, testing.4 -
The Hungarian public transport company launched an online shop (created by T-Systems), which was clearly rushed. Within the first days people found out that you could modify the headers and buy tickets for whatever price you set, and you could login as anyone else without knowing their password. And they sent out password reminders in plain text in non-encrypted emails. People reported these to the company which claims to have fixed the problems.
Instead of being ashamed of themselves now they're suing those who pointed out the flaws. Fucking dicks, if anyone they should be sued for treating confidential user data (such as national ID numbers) like idiots.3 -
Here in Switzerland 🇨🇭, i have a 100/20mbps internet over cable for 120$ per month, with a fixed ip.
What about you? I’m interested about the price around the world.46 -
Client: "We need a quote for a website build."
Me: "OK. What kind of website?"
Client: "We are working on a brief now, but we need a cost ASAP."
Me: "Alright. It should cost between $X and $Y. Dependent on the brief."
Client: "We can't go back with a range. We need a set price."
Me: "Well, give me a solid Functional Specification, and I'll give you a price based on that."
Client gave me a Func Spec. I gave them a price. Then they gave me change after change after change...
But they refused to pay more than the initial fixed price. By the end of it, I would have been better off working at McDonalds.4 -
Does time tracking makes you anxious? I just had a small project for a fixed price(no time tracking) and I felt so much less anxiety while working. This one ticking clock makes my work so much stressful.8
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Idiot: Hello, Sam gave me yo #, I need avery small database system, how much wd it cost.
Me: I can't giv u a price without knowing features of the system in details.
Idiot: letme send u a list of the features.
Me: ok
Idiot: Budget issues, Payroll, Reporting, capabilities, Purchasings,Projects/Awards, Trainings ,Input query, Fixed, assets, Central invoicing, General ledger, Accounts, payable, Accounts receivable.
Me: you managing a financial institution?
Idiot: no, its a university project.
Me: well am sory bt I can't help you guys, I dnt do campus projects.2 -
I really hate sales people. My stakeholder wants to buy an address verification service but is hesitant to purchase now because the dev time needed would be substantial. Now the sales rep has planted seeds of doubt in my SH and SH thinks I grossly overestimated the labor I quoted.
Sales rep is all “major corporations have installed this in a weekend.” 🤬🤬🤬 Major corporations also have more than one developer and probably aren’t dealing with a website that has a dozen address forms that all work differently. Oh, and I DON’T WORK WEEKENDS MOFO.
My SH originally requested a labor estimate for installing the AVS on all address forms and that’s what I delivered. My audit revealed a dozen different forms. I’m working with a legacy code base that’s been bandaged together and maintained by an outside dev agency. The only thing the forms have in common is reusable address fields. They all work differently when it comes to validating and submitting data to the server and they all submit to different api endpoints. At least a quarter of those forms are broken and would need to be fixed (these are mostly admin-facing). I also had to provide an estimate on frontend implementation when I have no idea what they want the FE to look like.
My estimate was 5-8 weeks for implementation AND testing. I wrote up my findings and clearly explained the labor required, why it was needed, and the time needed. All was fine until the sales rep tried to get into SH’s head.
My SH is now asking for a new estimate and hoping for 1-2 weeks of labor, which is what will SH to buy the AVS. Then go to the outside dev agency you used to work with and ask for a second opinion. I’m sure they’d also tell you at least month if not more for testing, implementation, and deployment because you have a DOZEN FORMS you want to add this to. 1-2 weeks is only possible for a single form.
My manager doesn’t work in the same coding language I do, but he read my documentation and supports my original estimate.
I honestly want to ask my SH if this sales rep is giving a very good price for the AVS. If not, are there other companies in the mix? Because right now you have a sales rep that’s taking you for a ride and trying to pressure you all so he can get another notch in his belt for getting another “major corporation” as his account. I don’t think it’s a good idea to be locked in with a grimy sales rep.3 -
I need some advice, because I'm feeling like I'm getting ripped off by my company.
I'm a junior developer and this is the first company I've every worked at. I've been here for 1 1/2 year. I said in the first interview that I am proficient with a fullstack framework, for a rather niche programming language, but I don't want to do front end, because I'm not good at it and I generally don't like it.
I'm the sole coder working on a project that costs the client 100EUR/h. There are others, but they just organize the tasks I have to do. This project requires me to work a full stack of retardation server, that's a pain in the ass, not really compatible with this project and required hack after hack to be fixed. Finding bugs in this pile of shit often takes days of emailing around and asking for logs in hope something might pop up. I've had to scavage through threads saying the still bleed form the anus or have PTSD, beccause of this retarded stack. As you can imagine, I'm also responsible for all of the QA and obviously get shit for bugs. I'm supposed to remember every little detail I've done in this project at the end of the sprint, while also working on 2-3 other projects simutaniously.
I've developed some small servers with dashboard and api for apps on my own. I'm supposed to also do all of the QA so that my boss doesn't see any errors, because otherwise our clients have to be QA.
I have written a complicated chat system that is distributed across nodes. We've nearly missed a deadline of 6 days for this shit, because I've been put under preasure, because I estimated such a "large" amount of time for this.
Other things I've done include:
* Login/Registration on many projects
* Possibility to add accounts for subordinated, with a full permission system for every resource
* Live product configuration with server validation and realtime price updates
* Wallet & transaction system, dealing with purchases of said product and various other services offered on this platform
* Literally replaced the old, abandoned database framework from a project with a modern one.
I've made some mistakes during the WFH corona times, but this that doesn't mean you can put more preasure on me and pull stuff like this: https://devrant.com/rants/2498161 https://devrant.com/rants/2479761
Is all of what I'm doing and have to deal with worth the 9EUR/h salary?10 -
Somewhere on upwork post online.
1. Require backend architecting done for Twitter like app. <more details on app >
2. Client budget: fixed price, 200$ -
The website was down.
She called me 5 or 6 times and mailed me twice that amount, asking how long it would take to get back up. Each time I answered that I did not know, that it was my job to figure out what was wrong, and that solving a problem doesn't have a fixed duration.
What I thought was that the updates on her emotional state of regret were not helping me to resolve the issue and cost me time. Why do people inflate the price of things they are going to pay for by asking for what cannot be known?
In the end it was just a shitty shared host having flipped some switches. It was their own damn fault for picking it over our recommended provider that keeps us informed about all them switches. Such as disallowing SymLinks overnight.1 -
!dev
Sorry about another non-dev rant, but I can't help it :p
I have seen a post here on devRant a few minutes ago talking about being a millionaire, so I thought I'd write a lil something for people thinking of chasing that.
As I said in a comment on that rant: as Jordan Peterson (aka Lord of the Lobsters) said, in order to be successful you need to be an industrious person, i.e. you gotta work hard, very hard. Most success stories are from people that worked very very hard (Elon Musk is one I can remember off the top of my head) and had to put their life, friends, family in second place. To this day I remember watching a video on a 30 year old millionaire, he said he didn't have friends for about 6-10 years, he just worked, worked and worked. If that's what you wanna do with your life do your thing, I'm just saying that's not it for me.
A few years back I wanted huge success (being famous, being rich), but I've come to realize that's not what I want. Being famous must suck, people recognizing you everywhere you go and shit, and being rich comes with a price (pun intended?), which is working every minute of your time for 10 years. That's not gonna make me happy, I have realized that I want to get married in my early 30's at max, have kids, buy a comfortable house somewhere in europe, have enough money to be able to give my family a good life and be able to buy and tune a few cars (that's a dream of mine btw), and maybe even try to start a company of my own (I don't like the idea of having a boss). And I think that to achieve these goals, all I need to do is be a bit smart right now: invest in fixed income, don't buy expensive shit, live with my parents at least until I get out of college and get a relatively decent job.
Anyway I might've steered off-course for a bit there, the point is: before you decide you want to be a millionaire, think what you actually want in life. If you want to be rich and are sure you have the willpower to work a 100 hours per week, do your thing, whatever makes you happy. But if you are going to work 60 hours a week and you're looking to be rich you're just going to be disappointed. You'll be chasing money all your life, sacrifice the (IMO) important things in life (friends, family, health, fun) and you won't get anywhere.
It's all or nothing, make up your mind before you waste your time.21 -
I ranted about my new laptop and linux mint on it https://devrant.com/rants/1919501 and I said there will be a rant about the OSs I tried
So my new laptop is the Xiaomi notebook pro, with the highest config: i7/16g/256g/mx150 gpu/alu body/10h battery/perfect keyboard/great screen. Its Chinese, but Xiaomi... you kinda expect flaws, problems, but i watched all the reviews and knew about all the things, and the price was 35% down (836 + taxes = 997EUR) for a macbook pro clone? its a no brainer.. but i had a rattling vent (fixed with shoe glue lol) now its just loud in windows but not in linux, strange
I changed the Chinese windows on it to EN... worked perfect... but... It has 2 slots for NVMe ssd so i bought a 500gb one for the second slot, I put windows on that (because games, occasional insta story video edit, big files, anyway...) and put Ubuntu on the 256gb original ssd.. (to develop on that) and it was slow as fuck, I got errors all over the places, problems I never had before with ubuntu.. and mind you Windows had over 3000 MB/s for read and almost 2000 MB/s for write speeds on that disk... I was disappointed af. MIND YOU all my life I had Ubuntu on secondary old/slow laptops/pcs working JUST FINE... I still don't know what the fuck happened.. the ui was choppy to say the least and I just was not ready to accept that on this HW while windows worked like a charm (yuck)
Then I went with Manjaro (based on arch, here on devrant people like that stuff, must be great)... well after I installed it, it booted up to the login page and black screen... something with the MX150 GPU according to the interwebs... by this time I was so frustrated and in time stress because of my flight home for xmas that I decided not to fix Manjaro but to go with another flavour
Linux Mint it is... everything kinda works out of the box, like they say... it has dark mode everywhere in the settings without downloading some bloated theme or plugin like on other flavours. So I sticked with Linux Mint. Im not saying its perfect, but I have it for like a month now and all its flaws are these small irrelevant settings not working, utilities like the battery showing funny numbers in the post I linked in the beginning.
Other than this I want to ask you guys. In all 3 distros I tried, they all had text scaling issues everywhere (os, apps, web). I think I have a regular fullHD display, its sharp, but I mean... I never expected resolution or scaling issues or things like that. On Windows I never had those scaling issues... other than the famous win10 "blurry apps"3 -
So last year I was working for this company and worked there for about 13 months. I was hired as a web dev but was soon moved on to creating web banners in html5 so that a friend who was doing that before could focus on design for prints. Well few days ago that friend called and said he was going on a vacation and was wondering if I would like to come back an fill in for him while he is on vacation.
Since the company can't find anyone willing or that did that job before and nows all the specs like I do I was their only choice for the job (yaay me). Of course I accepted the position as it wouldn't require me to be in their office from 9-5 but only on certain days when banners need to be created and for few hours only.
The downside of this is it will last for a whole month (didn't expect that) and it poses a chance to conflict with my current job. But my current boss is ok with me doing this as long as my "day job" doesn't get affected.
So now that I know I'm their only choice for the position and they don't have time to look for someone else and train them as the friend already left for vacation.
What do you guys think, how much should I charge them for this work ?
They are still waiting for my quote on the price.
I'm thinking of a fixed price for 1 month of work and somewhere around 600€ minimum.
My salary while working for that company full time was 400€ and I did web dev + banners (static and dynamic).
On a side note:
I heard from a few friends who still work there, that they might offer me full time job there again. But that is a whole new rant for another time -
Ranting (again) against the almighty marketing teams. So recently we started to build an amazing feature for our product but have been told to put the project on hold to help the "conversion team" which is focusing on trial, subscription and payment. But we are lagging behind the competitors regarding the features, for a huge price. But marketing wants that. Marketing wants an over engineered flow to be "fixed" for the 382948 time. Never had an impact on the conversation and will never have. So here is the truth : marketing stir the air because of their damn complex of inferiority and their inability to build anything.