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Search - "requirements gathering"
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"full stack" means "you'll be doing everything from gathering client requirements through data architecture up to the UI design and of course implementing all of it"
"backend" means "you'll be coding everything from database through server-side code and client-side code including html and css"
"we need you on-site all day every day" means "we have no idea how and why we should use repositories with remote access despite being a company developing an internet app, and we don't trust that you would be working anyway"
"interesting challenging projects" means "the same boring crap as every other company, running on an incredibly botched and dezorganized codebase".
"competitive pay" means "actual pay is around 1.5 times the minimum allowed pay, and everything else is being siphoned off into (stupid and useless) 'benefits' like massage and fitness discount coupons"
"friendly collective having fun at numerous company events each years" means "it is mandatory for you to participate on our weekend drinking retreats but you'll only find out when we fire you because you're 'not a team player' after you refused to participate on those"9 -
##Real fuckening STORY##
Angry client: this feature is not working like we discussed !
Me: it is.. *giving some explanation*
Client : no, this is not the right way
Me: But this is what we documented while gathering requirements, and YOU signed in the documentation..
Client : that long document? you don't expect me to read all of that talk just for this simple feature..
Me inside: *killing him 5 times in 5 different ways13 -
Requirements gathering is fun said no developer!!
P.S. Friday implies more time implies more devranting!!1 -
I am pretty sure when people say
"AI will be able to write code and create apps from scratch in the future"
have never actually sat in a client's requirements gathering call.16 -
Just finished my internship.
I entered knowing nothing and spent the entire year on solo projects.
My company does not use any frameworks because "they don't want to run code on a server that they didn't write", they use waterfall, only use version control on half the projects, use notepad++, never once even glanced at my code to check I know what I'm doing - even when i asked.
Also have never heard of a code review, have absolutely no QA in place other than the devs making it and quickly testing it visually, no requirements gathering - just pictures and have never heard of tdd.
Recently was given a project with no designs, no specs other than a verbal half thought out explanation and was dumped with random deadlines like "this needs to be demoed tomorrow night" with no idea about the project progression or what it looks like. Apparently it's all my fault that it failed.
I am very grateful to them for teaching me so much and giving me opportunities to teach myself on nice projects but come on.
What boggles my mind is that the company is 6 years old and has big, big clients. I don't understand how. I once tested a project about to go out the next day that had been "tested" and found pages of bugs. They would have lost the contract for sure...8 -
At a certain client, was asked to help them with an "intermediary" solution to stopgap a license renewal on their HR recruiting system.
This is something I was very familiar with, so no big. Did some requirements gathering, told them we could knock it out in 6 weeks.
We start the project, no problems, everything is fine until about 2.5 weeks in. At this point, someone demands that we engage with the testing team early. It grates a little as this client had the typical Indian outsourcing mega-corp pointey-clickey shit show "testing" (automation? Did you mean '10 additional testers?') you get at companies who put business people in charge of technology, but I couldn't really argue with it.
So we're progressing along and the project manager decides now is a great time to bugger the fuck off to India for 3 months, so she's totally gone. This is the point it goes off the rails. Without a PM to control the scope, the "lead tester," we'll call her Shrilldesi, proceeds to sit in a room and start trying to control the design of the system. Rather than testing anything in the specification, she just looked at the existing full HRIS recruiting system they were using and starts submitting bugs for missing features. The fuckwit serfs they'd assigned from HR to oversee this process just allowed it to happen totally losing focus on the fact this was an interim solution to hold them over for 6 months and avoid a contract renewal.
I get real passive aggressive at this point and refuse to deliver anything outside the original scope. We negotiate and end up with about 150% scope bloat and a now untenable timeline that we delivered about 2 weeks late, but in the end that absolute whore made my life a living hell for the duration of the project. She then got the recognition at the project release for her "excellent work," no mention of the people who actually did the work.
Tl;Dr people suck and if you value your sanity, you'll avoid companies that say things like, "we're not in the technology business" as an excuse to have shitty, ignorant staff.6 -
I'd post my wk200 goals, but my project manager is still busy gathering requirements for it and creating the epics.1
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Backstory: Offering manager brings a project through a few months of requirements gathering / feasibility study etc. Project spends 8 months with a R&D team to flesh out. Our team gets 6 months to turn it into a ship able product. 4 months in, offering manager calls a meeting.
OM: ok so you are all working on project X, well I need your input on something
Team: Ok, go ahead
OM: what do you think the app needs to do?
Team: ... I'm sorry?
OM: well we've been looking at it, and we don't think it does very much compared to existing apps. We need a killer feature but we don't know what. Any ideas?
Team: well we were looking at project Y originally, which was a lot more advanced. But you pulled the plug in favour of this.
OM: yeah, believe me customers will want project X a lot more. It just needs to do something interesting ... you know what I mean?
Team: not really, if it doesn't have anything, why did we go for it?
OM: ok I don't think I'm being clear. Point is, if anyone has any ideas let me know, we need to ship it in 2 months and it needs to be killer
I handed in my notice that week and was asked why ... let's just say I told them. -
Manager: "Hi Almond, how is X going?"
Almond: "...I don't know, Bob is in charge of that."
Manager: "Ok. Do you know the status of Y at all?"
Almond: "Not sure, isn't that Bob's responsibility too?"
Manager: "Well, yeah, but I never seem to be able to get a good answer out of him. Find out on both fronts and let me know ASAP please"
...sure, I know how this goes. I'll stop all the dev work I'm doing, do your job for you, talk to the lazy bonehead that never bothers doing anything, report back that he's done sod all (or still "in a requirements gathering phase" as he puts it), be asked "why is he taking so long", have a bit more back and forth, then decide we'll just leave him be as actually trying to get him to do any work is going to be too much like hassle 😒6 -
doNotMessWithITTeamInAFuckingProject();
Last night me with my team have a discussion with my project team. Currently we have a project for our insurance client building a Learning Management System. The project condition already messed up since the first day i join a meeting. Because since its a consortium project with multiple company involved, one of company had a bad experience with another company. It happened few years back when both of company were somehow break up badly because miss communication (i heard this from one of my team).
Skip..skip... And then day to day like another stereotype IT projects when client and business analyst doing requirements gathering, the specs seems unclear and keep changing day by day even when I type this rant I'm sure it will change again.
Then something happened last night when my team leader force our business analyst to re index the use case number (imho) this is no need to be done, and i know the field conditions its so tough for all team members.
So many problems occured, actually this is a boring problem like lack of dev resource, lack of project management and all other stereotype IT projects had. Its sucks why this things is happening again.
Finally my fellow business analyst type a quite long message in our group and said that he maybe quit because its too tired and he felt that the leader only know about push push pushhhhhy fcking pussy, he never go to the client site and look what we've done and what we struggle so far.
I just don't know why, i know this guy earlier was an IT geek also, but when he leading a team he act like he never done IT project before, just know about pushing people without knowing what the context and sound to me like just rage push!
Damnit, i maybe quit also, you know we IT guy never affraid to quit anytime from the messed up condition like this. Even though we were at the bottom level in a project, but we hold the most main key for development.
Hope he (my leader) read this rant. And can realize what happened and fix this broken situation. I don't know what to say again, im in steady mode to quit anytime if something chaos happen nearly in the future.
doNotMessWithITTeamInAFuckingProject();1 -
you know what i !love?
-project managers that can't manage something as simple as pivotal tracker
-project managers that schedule repeated stakeholder demo sessions when none of my stakeholers show up (ever)
-project managers that hold repeated grooming sessions that no one gives a fuck about because they can't manage what the fuck is going on the current iteration and therfore cannot forecast a proper next iteration
-project managers that complain about what doesn't get done in a current iteration because they don't don't pay attention to high priority stories that are added by developers in the current iteration even though they have (OWN) pivotal tracker
-project managers who have no clue about the business but want to turn grooming sessions into some sort of requirements gathering meeting only so they can appear halfway competent in the stupid little pivotal tracker notes
-cats that can't decide whether they want to go outside or stay inside
i'll take cats. at least their cuddly. sometimes. fuckers.2 -
"I don't believe in software development methodologies, agile is absurd. Just tell me the exact HOURS you will spend doing research, gathering requirements, etc. I want to know the justification on why you will spend those many hours doing those task"3
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University is a dumb place.
Example:
I have been restricted to a predefined list of projects for my dissertation. The trouble is, the project must be a solution to an existing problem. So we're given a product to develop which then requires us to actively search for an implementation which addresses a problem.
Not only have we not proposed a solution ourselves but have also been given a list of software requirements. Wouldn't be an issue if we hadn't been pushed to write about our "requirements gathering" process.
So we have to gather requirements that are the requirements we have been given but do it in an independent way. Yeah, sure.
I am genuinely just going the motions with this fucking place now.9 -
It's been a while DevRant!
Straight back into it with a rant that no doubt many of us have experienced.
I've been in my current job for a year and a half & accepted the role on lower pay than I normally would as it's in my home town, and jobs in development are scarce.
My background is in Full Stack Development & have a wealth of AWS experience, secure SaaS stacks etc.
My current role is a PHP Systems Developer, a step down from a senior role I was in, but a much bigger company, closer to home, with seemingly a lot more career progression.
My job role/descriptions states the following as desired:
PHP, T-SQL, MySQL, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Jquery, XML
I am also well versed in various JS frameworks, PHP Frameworks, JAVA, C# as well as other things such as:
Xamarin, Unity3D, Vue, React, Ionic, S3, Cognito, ECS, EBS, EC2, RDS, DynamoDB etc etc.
A couple of months in, I took on all of the external web sites/apps, which historically sit with our Marketing department.
This was all over the place, and I brought it into some sort of control. The previous marketing developer hadn't left and AWS access key, so our GitLabs instance was buggered... that's one example of many many many that I had to work out and piece together, above and beyond my job role.
Done with a smile.
Did a handover to the new Marketing Dev, who still avoid certain work, meaning it gets put onto me. I have had a many a conversation with my line manager about how this is above and beyond what I was hired for and he agrees.
For the last 9 months, I have been working on a JAVA application with ML on the back end, completely separate from what the colleagues in my team do daily (tickets, reports, BI, MI etc.) and in a multi-threaded languages doing much more complicated work.
This is a prototype, been in development for 2 years before I go my hands on it. I needed to redo the entire UI, as well as add in soo many new features it was untrue (in 2 years there was no proper requirements gathering).
I was tasked initially with optimising the original code which utilised a single model & controller :o then after the first discussion with the product owner, it was clear they wanted a lot more features adding in, and that no requirement gathering had every been done effectively.
Throughout the last 9 month, arbitrary deadlines have been set, and I have pulled out all the stops, often doing work in my own time without compensation to meet deadlines set by our director (who is under the C-Suite, CEO, CTO etc.)
During this time, it became apparent that they want to take this product to market, and make it as a SaaS solution, so, given my experience, I was excited for this, and have developed quite a robust but high level view of the infrastructure we need, the Lambda / serverless functions/services we would want to set up, how we would use an API gateway and Cognito with custom claims etc etc etc.
Tomorrow, I go to London to speak with a major cloud company (one of the big ones) to discuss potential approaches & ways to stream the data we require etc.
I love this type of work, however, it is 100% so far above my current job role, and the current level (junior/mid level PHP dev at best) of pay we are given is no where near suitable for what I am doing, and have been doing for all this time, proven, consistent work.
Every conversation I have had with my line manager he tells me how I'm his best employee and how he doesn't want to lose me, and how I am worth the pay rise, (carrot dangling maybe?).
Generally I do believe him, as I too have lived in the culture of this company and there is ALOT of technical debt. Especially so with our Director who has no technical background at all.
Appraisal/review time comes around, I put in a request for a pay rise, along with market rates, lots of details, rates sources from multiple places.
As well that, I also had a job offer, and I rejected it despite it being on a lot more money for the same role as my job description (I rejected due to certain things that didn't sit well with me during the interview).
I used this in my review, and stated I had already rejected it as this is where I want to be, but wanted to use this offer as part of my research for market rates for the role I am employed to do, not the one I am doing.
My pay rise, which was only a small one really (5k, we bring in millions) to bring me in line with what is more suitable for my skills in the job I was employed to do alone.
This was rejected due to a period of sickness, despite, having made up ALL that time without compensation as mentioned.
I'm now unsure what to do, as this was rejected by my director, after my line manager agreed it, before it got to the COO etc.
Even though he sits behind me, sees all the work I put in, creates the arbitrary deadlines that I do work without compensation for, because I was sick, I'm not allowed a pay rise (doctors notes etc supplied).
What would you do in this situation?4 -
Freshly failed gloriously my degree in interaction design. Now I stumbled into a new job, doing a fullscale company advertisment campaign on cybersecurity for 6500 employees. Alone. Writing concept, gathering stakeholder, requirements and shit. I'm scared.4
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During requirements gathering:
Listening.
Writing requirements as stated.
Not designing in my head.
Asking leading questions that validate said faux design. -
Ever suggest improvements and get shot down at every turn? I was discussing automating our release process today and suggesting that instead of having to do everything manually and babysit the build, we should let Jenkins deal with releasing and the attitude was that we shouldn't even try because we'd spend more time maintaining the automation and wouldn't gain anything. Obviously I disagree, but it seems like I'm always coming up against shit like this.
Our requirements gathering is another point of contention; I think we could be way better at it if we invested more time talking to customers before a project starts but the attitude is to get straight into development and deal with that later.
I don't know why I even bother sometimes...4 -
So a product manager emailing devs long essays on requirements? how does that sound? Aren't developers just supposed to implement the specifications? Is requirement gathering and design their job too? Maybe I need a new job before I go crazy.3
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Recruiters with no clue (a recurring theme it seems).
Got an e-mail this morning via LinkedIn proposing a position in Zurich (Switzerland) doing customization of an application according to business needs, configuration of interfaces, gathering of requirements, 2nd level support etc.
DID YOU READ ANYTHING MY LINKEDIN SAYS? I work in storage support (doing mostly troubleshooting of FC/iSCSI issues between storage and hosts), and live in Amsterdam, and while I would like to pivot to a SW dev job, this seems to be way over my grade of experience, plus I have no desire to go living in Switzerland.
Arsehole!5 -
I prefer it doing 2 tasks parallely during the initial phase of requirement gathering and design phase.(makes more sense if you are working extremely new system and framework)
1. Keep collecting requirements from clients and understand them.
2. Collect different designing aspects for the project and parallely, build a POC for 2 purpose: to get hands into the new Framework and also as a demo to clients. Working on POC helps in 3 ways: Improving understanding of requirement, improving framework knowledge, and playing around with code whenever bored of designing and reading tons of existing designs..
3. Once primary requirements are clear and fixed, analyse all different designs, if possible I setup meetings with senior devs, principal engineers (they help a lot when it comes to reviews on scalability and reliability of a design)
4. The above design is mostly architectural level. Once design is fixed, then I start taking each component and prepare a detailed implementation design. (Notice that whenever I am bored of designing, I spend sometime in building POC)
5. In detail design, I focus on modularity and flexibility. Anything defined should have getters and setters for example. This will help you reuse your code. Keep the interface between components in your design as generic as possible, so that in case your MySQL is change to Postgre or NoSQL, your design should be able to adapt new features..
6. Instead of building entire project, define feature targets and deliver small features.. this will help you to be in line with the requirements with minimum deviation. -
When Do You Stop Taking Responsibility?
Let me clarify by describing four scenarios in which you are tasked with some software development. It could be a large or small task. The fourth scenario is the one I'm interested in. The first three are just for contrast.
1. You either decide how to implement the requirements, or you're given directions or constraints you agree with. (If you hadn't been given those specific directions you probably would have done the same thing anyway.) **You feel accountable for the outcome**, such as whether it works correctly or is delivered on time. And, of course, the team feels collectively accountable. (We could call this the "happy path.")
2. You would prefer to do the work one way, but you're instructed to do it a different way, either by a manager, team lead, or team consensus. You disagree with the approach, but you're not a stubborn know-it-all. You understand that their way is valid, or you don't fully understand it but you trust that someone else does. You're probably going to learn something. **You feel accountable for the outcome** in a normal, non-blaming sort of way.
3. You're instructed to do something so horribly wrong that it's guaranteed to fail badly. You're in a position to refuse or push back, and you do.
4. You're given instructions that you know are bad, you raise your objections, and then you follow them anyway. It could be a really awful technical approach, use of copy-pasted code, the wrong tools, wrong library, no unit testing, or anything similar. The negative consequences you expect could include technical failure, technical debt, or significant delays. **You do not feel accountable for the outcome.** If it doesn't work, takes too long, or the users hate it, you expect the individual(s) who gave you instructions to take full responsibility. It's not that you want to point fingers, but you will if it comes to that.
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That fourth scenario could provoke all sorts of reactions. I'm interested in it for what you might call research purposes.
The final outcome is irrelevant. If it failed, whether someone else ultimately took responsibility or you were blamed is irrelevant. That it is the opposite of team accountability is obvious and also irrelevant.
Here is the question (finally!)
Have you experienced scenario number four, in which you develop software (big as an application, small as a class or method) in a way you believe to be so incorrect that it will have consequences, because someone required you to do so, and you complied *with the expectation that they, not you, would be accountable for the outcome?*
Emphasis is not on the outcome or who was held accountable, but on whether you *felt* accountable when you developed the software.
If you just want to answer yes or no, or "yes, several times," that's great. If you'd like to describe the scenario with any amount of detail, that's great too. If it's something you'd rather not share publicly you can contact me privately - my profile name at gmail.com.
The point is not judgment. I'll go first. My answer is yes, I have experienced scenario #4. For example, I've been told to copy/paste/edit code which I know will be incomprehensible, unmaintainable, buggy, and give future developers nightmares. I've had to build features I know users will hate. Sometimes I've been wrong. I usually raised objections or shared concerns with the team. Sometimes the environment made that impractical. If the problems persisted I looked for other work. But the point is that sometimes I did what I was told, and I felt that if it went horribly wrong I could say, "Yes, I understand, but this was not my decision." *I did not feel accountable.*.
I plan on writing more about this, but I'd like to start by gathering some perspective and understanding beyond just my own experience.
Thanks5 -
effin management always commiting something they didnt think through and now the team suffers the consequences of their stupid actions, one of them is that they fucking commited a night of development phase for a major code revision fuck that shit cause that major revision also came for their fucking lack of analysis and mediocre mindset during the requirements gathering phase fuck that
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I thought I posted about this awhile back but I didn't. I'm glad since the story is so much better now.
6 weeks ago: Told I'm going to be on a super fun JAMStack build with lots of sexy animations. Sweet, this will be a fun build!
5 weeks ago: Find out what the timeline on this incredibly ambitious project is. I start raising flags cause everything needs to go PERFECT for this to not blow up and/or turn in to a dumpster fire.
4 weeks ago: Project "kicks off" with a meeting with the client. We find out that they've decided to do another round of revisions on their design comps, but we have what we need for sprint 1. We provide a list of all the assets/information we still need for sprint 1 success.
3 weeks ago: Still waiting on some assets for sprint one, but we're fumbling our way through. Still waiting on the PM to get around to doing their PM job and building out our backlog / gathering requirements for us.
2 weeks ago: Sprint 1's end date comes and goes. Still need assets from the client, I've personally asked them for the same asset 3 different times. Sprint 1 gets extended 1 week.
1 week ago: We deliver sprint 1 page templates, minus the resources we're still waiting for. Get chewed out by the client regarding the pages not looking like their comps (Yeah, no shit sherlock, you never sent us the assets)
This week: Working on Sprint 2 commitments. We have 2x as many page templates to deliver, per developer, as we had the first sprint. Still waiting on Sprint 1 assets. Don't have Sprint 2 assets. Wait, what about the global styles? They still haven't sent those to us yet either.
Requirements? Guess I'll spend valuable dev time tracking those down for myself.
Client? Well, they're pissed off we haven't hit our commitments yet.
Oh well, at least we have a pimple faced, fresh out of college, CS major, with no real development experience rolling on to this cesspool of a project.
Other devs? Well, we're out of fucks to give. Lets just watch this thing burn.
Oh, I forgot to add, we have 17 page templates to deliever between today (2/27) and 3/18. #NoFuckingWay -
Stop staying “.... or whatever” or “pull blah, blah, blah” when discussing requirements. What you say, we will build. If you honestly don’t care what we build then let us end this call and we can make it up.1
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1 week after being handed a project, and another week before it's launch. I had to sit in a meeting presenting the project, where I found out my boss had done 0 requirements gathering from the stakeholders. Of course they all yelled at me about how shitty the project was, and my boss was nowhere to be seen...2