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"Why are people using Git? It's too complicated. Dropbox can do the same kind of things."
- A fellow CS student at university26 -
"Don't use git, it is too complicated and we don't have time for this."
2 days later the same person made changes directly on the FTP which I later unknowingly overwrote.
Take that you imbecile!13 -
"You should use Windows server!"
It was a high security project which needed to run very stable. Even the windows sysadmin looked at that guy like 'dude what the actual fuck'.27 -
*Dev in his 40's from our counter-part office.
Me: Here's my SSH keys.
Dev: What's this?
Me: SSH keys. Give me access to the repository.
Dev: We don't use any version control here. Let's just use FTP or Remote Desktop and just download the codes.19 -
Worst dev advice?
My first manager said, "You're young and single. You don't have a family. You should spend all of your waking hours on work."
Me thinking, "I understand the importance of extra effort the first few years but I do have a life. One that I intend to enjoy."15 -
Guy who was bragging about being programmer before I became one: "Best programming language is Wordpress".12
-
> Comments are there only for you, please delete them before pushing your code.
I want to kill everyone who suggests that, slaughter them like animals!14 -
My professor( 2 yrs ago) : Why r u wasting ur time on Python. Learn Java or .net , u will get a good job.
Now she asked me for python tutorials cause she needs it for her PHd. 😂😂😂12 -
"Don't waste your time writing code. Browse on github looking for pieces of code, they're all well written over there."
... during a Javascript exercise lesson.5 -
Worst 'advice' from a college recruiter:
"O you want to major in computer science? Well our school is fantastic for women in comp sci because WHEN they find it too difficult they can easily transition to graphic design. How do you feel about graphic design?"
I decided that school was a bad choice.
Graduating this year with my BS in Comp Sci and going for my Masters in Robotics. Screw that guy.18 -
Client: we need extraordinary website in ordinary price.
Me: ohk *google search* WordPress free theme.12 -
"Don't waste your time on writing comments or documentation, as long as the code works!" - My (Ex-) Coworker5
-
"Do not indent HTML files."
- From a Junior High classmate of mine who claims he is a computer wizard[this was many years ago]4 -
"If it's not broken, don't fix it"
Follow that and you will be blessed with lots of ugly, duct-taped, hacky and unoptimized code -_-11 -
Thinking/saying: nah, that can't be an issue, no user can be that stupid
Never has anyone been so wrong.17 -
"Just try and move your workflow to Windows, it's not that different from Linux"
My boss, when I asked him if I could install Arch on my company laptop20 -
A teacher who came to see if I'm programming correctly asked me to start my curly braces on a new line like
F()
{
}
because where the fuck did you learn the other version
F() {
}
" that's just wrong"28 -
"Anything that can be done in GUI is better than in terminal"
Yes it's wrong and stupid. Let Microsoft fans disagree.16 -
Lecturer :" Never ever create UML diagrams because it is a waste of time. Only people who can't code create these stupid things. Just sit down and start coding. "22
-
During teacher office hours a few years back: if you have questions on your homework, maybe it's too hard and you should switch majors to something easier, many girls do, so there's no shame in it.
I had asked for verification that my standard deviation logic was correct before spending the time coding it and then figuring out what was wrong.
Ps- he's no longer employed by the school for other sexist reasons.28 -
Oh yeah that.
That's a known bug.
It's been there for a long time now and the customer knows about it.
We ship it as expected behaviour now.2 -
Manager: Give me an estimate for this project.
Me: It will take end to end approx two months.
Manager: Can you do it in a day. Make some magic happen. This is high critical for business.
Me: Sure. I have a small requirement from you to achieve it.
Manager: What
Me: Please get me the 'Limitless' capsule.9 -
(While there is also IntelliJ on the PC)
Teacher : "We're going to make JAVA, please open Eclipse"
Me : *Opens IntelliJ, get weird looks from friends and explains why it's good*5 -
worst advice:
"Use only jQuery, js is shit"
"Use only js, jQuery is shit"
Dude, use whatever dafuq you want, both have their pros and cons..9 -
SQL is the only database you’ll ever use. Don’t bother to learn anything else. If you ever need to store anything, use an SQL database. No .txt or that shit.9
-
Alleged senior dev in a company I was consulting at 👴: "interfaces? I never use those. I don't believe in interfaces"4
-
Stupid tech guy: "You should use Windows, it's bettter"
Me: "No i quit Windows and use Linux"
At the end of the day he updates Windows and got a BSOD...
I laughed and walked off8 -
MD: The client doesn't care how sloppy your code is. They're not paying for the solution, they're paying for the result. If there's a quick and dirty option take it.3
-
"Nothing good will ever come of this computer thing of yours. Stop wasting time and learn something useful."
. . .
My Mom was telling me this for years.4 -
"Work is intended to earn you money, you don't have to like it to make a living from it" - my first boss7
-
[when starting out with web dev] Just use bootstrap!
Please don't. I teach web dev now, and when people learn a framework initially, they often get a warped and incomplete understanding of how things work. They spend their time learning the framework instead of learning the systems they're actually working with, and then when the want to do something the framework can't do, they're just at a loss.
Don't get me wrong, bootstrap and jquery and so on have their places, but those places aren't when you're just starting out.12 -
Week 66 has taught me that I must actually be quite privileged!
I can't recall any bad advice given to me. It's either been good, or I completely forgot about it.
Or on the other hand, it's all been bad advice and I'm a rubbish developer...3 -
"Don't bother reading the docs, they're just technical crap"
Well guess who knows how the framework we're using works 🤔1 -
"Users don't need or like detailed error messages. Just use a generic phrase like `an error occurred`. Visually it looks nicer and they won't read it anyway"
- Lead UI / UX Designer, large m.n.c, 10+ years experience10 -
"You should always hardcode stuff, so that when the customer wants to change something, he'll pay us and we'll make it dynamic!"3
-
"First remove the break points, and then commit the code".
He described it as if the breakpoints could stop time!! 😂5 -
You don't need to crop that full resolution Shutterstock image, just use max width 100%
Image size: 7+mb3 -
"If you want to be a good developer then be good at one programming language." - I don't know why but I do not agree with this.7
-
For a project day we had to write a game of our choice in Java.
"You should make this game using the JSwing library and make each component a JComponent"
Later I learned you can simply use a Bitmap as a canvas.
NEVER. EVER. BASE. YOUR. GAME. ON. SWING.
It inefficient to the top of my taskmanager. I had to wrap everything with something like a virtual playground where I had to manage everything myself to not roast my cpu.
I had alot more fun debugging hundred lines of C code with print statements than writing that shit2 -
"Older versions are more stable"
The whole concept of LTS in development pisses me off.
Delayed upgrading, whether it's the language itself, dependencies or tooling, does just one thing: It makes future upgrading way more difficult, often to the point where the company eventually runs into this maintainability wall, and gets stuck in old, unsupported versions.
"But... stability!" — The tiny chance that the newer version has such serious stability regressions that it negatively impacts your own product doesn't weigh up against the clusterfuck you fall into if you push the task too far into the future.
You can relatively easily assess a new major language version using benchmarks and unit tests. Predicting the repercussions of staying on PHP 5.4 or Python 2.7 for another year, predicting the impact of upgrading the codebase later, that is almost impossible.
I'm not saying you should live on the bleeding edge in production, but as soon as a new stable version of a core technology is released, just fucking drop everything you're doing and port those deprecated methods!7 -
Coworker: "Yeah, I know the code module is 25K lines of code, but don't try to break it up. At some point I realized that they just have to be that big."
Me: 😦3 -
"Don't bother spending time learning MVC. We'll never use it here."
o_O
Well, that was 4 years ago, I'm still working here, they're not, we're using MVC.5 -
"It's faster to just use one mysql table with 300 columns then linking the data in 10 tables. 10 tables mean 10x the load time!"...
- External consultant hired for optomizing database. (He didn't make it through the day and was sent home...)1 -
"Never touch a running system". I can't believe how many times I've seen this advice here. How the fuck are you supposes to upgrade, improve stuff? This is why stuff like WannaCry happens.8
-
"Ah no, reusable frameworks and libraries are a terrible idea. What you need is a bunch of very lightweight files that you can copy / paste from project to project"
- Mobile Architect, Large m.n.c, 10+ years experience.4 -
Worst dev advice?
Mgr: "Stop trying to use that agile shit for your projects. Waterfall is the only way proper application development is done."3 -
I got told once that "You don't need pay if you love your job" - what kind of bullshit logic is that? ( I work as a volunteer programmer on a community project, but the game is for-profit and making a fair amount ). People these days...7
-
Just output the web api response like this:
echo "{"
echo " \"key\" = ["
for i in `seq 1 $arrCount`; do
if [ $i -ne 0 ]; then
echo ","
fi
echo "{ \"key1\" = \"${key1[$i]}\","
echo " \"key2\" = \"${key2[$i]}\" }"
done
echo "]}"9 -
"Here's an example code for Commodore 64. It should work on your Commodore 16 if you just leave out the POKEs and PEEKs."
Said by my sister somewhere in the mid 80s. This particular advice was silly, but I owe her for my interest in coding. It was actually her who begged our parents to get us a home computer, and took programming courses. She got bored with it though, and I got hooked up for life. Thanks sis!6 -
"Eh, just push it to prod and see if anything breaks"
The entire system went down for hours, estimated loss north of $1M.5 -
anytime any solution is "just execute this on commandline", without so much as a hint of explanation what said "this" does2
-
Go to business school to get a Finance degree... Since you already know how to code, why do you need study CS? Finance is hot now, make $$$$$$4
-
"Don't worry with that problem today, it's not critical"
And this is said in less than a week of deadline -
Don't bother programming anything for us. We'll never use it. (I work at an IT help desk Technician at a school and this was from the IT director)
They now use 3 of my projects (one SSO authentication, another issue tracker, and the other inventory) -
"Don't waste your time reinventing the wheel, just use *random CMS or framework*"
I understand that I will never have all the time to do every projets from scratch, because of deadlines, clients, employers... But I was still a student when I've been told that.
And I never felt that I was wasting my time because I wanted to better understand what I was doing.
And I hate CMS. All of them.1 -
!wk66
Maybe?
If we (Web makers) stop making [ie,safari,android native browser] compatible websites... Maaaaybe, just sayin' maaaybee THEY will take some time to support web standards ?? maybe ?10 -
I tried really hard but couldn't come up with a bad dev advice I've ever taken. Turns out my peers are excellent!3
-
Long time ago i was moving to linux, had troubles with realtek kernel module and a friend of me told me to use "sudo rm -rf /*" and when i got it was not too late, half of my files was gone2
-
"Tar up your projects as version control."
- CS teacher
I understand git is hard (just the awkward syntax) and not part of a curriculum, but can it at least be suggested? A whole year later, I found out about git and it has made CS projects so much easier.
git commit -a -m "No more tape archiving"4 -
"always think of a bug as a feature"
-Someone I used to know in a hckathon, 2012, colorized, minified -
"Don't waste time on security, just make it work" heard this from a "security head manager" at a 1 million eval. company 3 years ago1
-
Store POJOs as json inside a database column so that we have a dynamic relational database!
For those who don't know what a POJO
*POJO: plain old Java object
Technically I was asked to store all data models as json in a single column 🙄10 -
"Just use JCreator. It's better and easier to use than Eclipse or IntelliJ."
For those that don't know, jcreator is a Java ide that sucks ass. It doesn't even have a dark theme!3 -
Advice from my father : "Don't become a developer son"
And here I am a developer without any money and life.
Oh wait.. We supposed to write a bad advice??!3 -
Forget mobile first... it's offline first now
(Said Google 2016 about webapps, not sure if they're still on that trip...)4 -
Lets learn bubble sort!
Type the following code to Visual C++ 1998 and compile it. Then run it. Write the output to the paper i just gave it to you.
Reality:
• Takes 5 mins to compile and run
• Too many errors in the given code so obscure output
• Teacher thinks we are so smart that we can understand c by typing and looking at the output.
The worst part:
• Different output per compiler
- Correctly compiles in the compiler in VC++ 98.
- Differs in GNU GCC, compiles wrong
- sends out obscure dummy output in VS2015~2017
- Works well in tutorialspoint.com compiler
WTF is this, guys?
@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Oh, and i have gone off topic...
Why does he think we are smart that we can understand bubble sort, and 4 more by only typing the code and looking at the output without knowing how does this algo work?
@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Answer to weekly question.
The teacher said to understand sorting algos by typing the code and looking at the output which differs per compiler.5 -
At the University, Algorithms class, exercises lesson..the assistant explaining the results of an assignment:
"Because here..if we use a classic 'if-else' loop..."
😳1 -
I know this is kinda late but it just came in this morning..
With the current codebase I'm working with, it's not that bad of an option...😉
1 -
Literally the first rant I made when I joined devRant was about this very piece of advice.
Me: "The build in testing is broken, this is how we fix it"
PM: "They haven't noticed yet, work on the feature request"
https://devrant.io/rants/225727/...2 -
"let's use git for this game jam"
Wait! Don't go! I love git and use it on every project I work on! You'll have to hear me out here.
This was 4 years ago, at my first Global Game Jam. Every jam and game I'd worked on up to that point, I was the only Dev; no need for git, as backups were more than enough. I joined a group with high hopes for the game jam, with three coders and a proper art team.
The entire jam was "1 step forward 2 steps back", as git somehow constantly overwrote code as fast as we could write it.
By the end of the jam we barely had anything to show for our hard work. The takeaway isn't even about git. It's simply to never work with other people. Git is a great protocol but it can't stop people from accidentally fucking other people over. Every jam since, I've worked on my own and had a far better time of it.3 -
...
$html .= '</li></ul></div>' . $label . '</div>';
return new JsonModel(
'status' => true,
'html' => $html
);1 -
"Just hardcoded the thing so in tomorrow meeting works"
And it repeated before every fucking meeting. -
Learn as many languages as you can as soon as you can, they said, it's the only way to get hired! Sure... I'll get awful at a lot instead of really good at one thing and actually be useful 😐1
-
From a Dev at my old place: Don't use git for such a small project, I think we should use email to send our code to each other.
Turned out that this "small project" was a piece for a larger project.
Also turns out there's such a thing as merge conflicts outside of git.
Our code was broken for 3 days once because of his shitty advice.2 -
wk66 {
Don’t pay as much for things that aren’t as important.
}
tl;dr {Mobo won’t POST.};
Backstory:
Me and @Rekonnect built a website a few years ago. So I built a “server” and ran server 2008 on it. Our server was very budget oriented and featured the following:
AMD Athlon X4 860K
Biostar Hi-Fi A70U3P
8GB G.Skill Ripjaws series
Small HDD
R5 220 Core Edition
EVGA 430W
ODD
Over the years, I’ve made many changes. Now it’s a GTX 960 with 3 Small SSDs and one large HDD. No internal optical. PSU is now at 600W from EVGA. Also a really old Sound Blaster sound card just for the fun of it. The case is now a Corsair SPEC-01. Put a T92 CPU cooler and 3 Riing RGB case fans and you’re ready to go. I was getting ready to put a third monitor but haven’t gotten to it.
If you’ve been following my rants recently, you would’ve seen that I was interested in developing iOS apps. Thanks to the team at http://AMD-OSX.com and four days of work, I’ve installed macOS on one of the SSDs. I think.
The computer won’t POST.
I’ve tried everything and nothing seems to work. Well, there goes my hopes and dreams. Let’s hope I can borrow money from my parents to at least replace my motherboard. :(
Ideas/Help?
FYI: I at one point did get 4 beeps in post, the system decided to upgrade firmware, and the BIOS people are American Megatrends.
Anything will be appreciated.
9 -
The way I was told to write unit tests was particularly terrible.
No mocking of objects or dependencies so the tests ran the actual code in full including updating databases and files. Then at the end of each test there was code to restore all changes back to before the test.
Each test ended up being over 100 lines. Madness.1 -
Student dev : "C++ is C but with OOP features"
Teacher dev : "C++ is a OOP language, you'll loose points if you don't use OOP"
Me: "Time to leave this school"3 -
The client wants the booking project to be all in JS Framework (not specifying any) and NO PHP since client hates PHP (and I don't know why) from the very beginning when the only dev was my former front-end partner (lead dev).
I was wondering why the client still continued the project, YET the file extensions were still on PHP. I asked the lead dev what happened and answered he didn't know know how to start migrating to JS framework and just started NATIVE PHP.
Still, as being a good dev and a supporter to lead dev, did accept and the project as lead dev's assistant. Fixed bugs, enhancement and responsive (DEMMIT, I FREAKING HATE RESPONSIVE) and later complained why am I doing front-end tasks, when it's not my task, supposedly. I EXPECTED MORE ON BACK-END TASKS!
(HERE'S THE EPIC ADVISE GOES AND CALLED OURSELVES MASTER)
Me: Master, why did you not started the project in JS Framework instead of native php?
Lead Dev : You know what master, this project has been already done if the client allows US to use WordPress for this project will still be migrated to JS. And now, WE are trapped to make every window size be responsive since there are already a standard for each window screen.
Me: (DO NOT INCLUDE ME IN YOUR FUCKING SORCERY! I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DID THERE AND WHY D'YOU ACCEPT THIS PROJECT, SLAVE, WHEN YOU ALREADY KNOW YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO IT, IN THE FIRST PLACE. STOP BEING A DICKHEAD AND DO NOT WASTE CLIENT'S MONEY AND EFFORT FOR YOUR USELESS BUNCH OF SHIT!) Indeed, responsive is a such a pain in the arse.
Lead Dev: Maybe, let's just finish our tasks first and wait the project to be migrated to JS.
P.S. The project manager and client asked me if I do know how to migrate the project from native PHP to JS framework and sabotaged lead dev. OFCOURSE, YES! But, I did not respond that quickly, unless eerm, you know, I earn greater than lead dev. Truth be told and practically speaking, it's really unfair for me if I accept the back-job when the lead dev delivers inaccurate deliverables and earned greater than me. No way, Jose!
Now, I am not working with him because I'm super done with him and later did I know, lead dev is looking for Drupal dev to be working for the booking project. -
This happened at the beginning of my first job:
Me: I want to clarify some things that wasn't specified in my task. I want to see if I need to do them and how I should solve it.
Senior dev: Don't worry about it. If testers pass the task back to you, then you do it. Just do as it is.
Me: 😓2 -
You can close the lid of your laptop when installing programs to conserve energy.
Reality1. It resumes
Reality2. It cancels itself (recall when the process cancells in 97%)3 -
Stop wasting time setting up continuous integration environment and get on with real work.
2 days later: why aren't we using continuous integration, the plan says we have to. -
Me:how about this one ui component boss. I think we must fix it.
Boss:just drop it out, do another job. wait customer to complain, after we got one complain then you fix that.6 -
Why use git, do it simple, send me your changes by email and I will merge it.
Why split split source code (js) into different files, use one so we will no have trouble about load order.
Use the same user account for github/gitlab/bitbucket/etc. So we will no worry to setup access permisions.
Use Dropbox/Drive for version control.
We will test the whole system until the end when all is finish.3 -
My senior colleague recently said "Don't go around asking for best practices, it's a waste of time! Just try stuff until it works and commit it".
We were talking about writing code in a new language.1 -
On a programming lab the professor told us to use gedit to write our code because "it's easy to use"
No, thanks
*Installs a few plugins and uses vim instead*
Now *that's* what I call easy 😎3 -
"The MVC framework is just a hype, we dont need to refactor our ASP.NET webshop" - former CTO
Dudeee, its a pattern not a framework, ever heard of 'single responsibily' instead of these monolithic 8000 line helper classes!3 -
In uni
Lecturer: SOAP is insecure...
In interview: Any disadvantages you see with SOAP?
Me: The last i read SOAP is insecure. Im abit rusty with this knowledge
Interviewer: ahhh okay, SOAP is actually secure...
DAMN YOU LECTURER!2 -
If the database doesn't have the information, they won't be able to login, no need to validate or sanitize
-
Build this as a monolith, microservices are to complicated..
Said no and did the docs first, to make it look easy. Problem solved ;) -
"Just try it on production"
- a coworker DBA shortly before he desperately had to figure out how to restore to the latest backup. -
"Stop using mixins in your SASS it's complicating the code for the team.
Extend your classes instead"1 -
"You'll be doing X, and be sure to test everything you do. But we don't do unit testing. They aren't paying us for that."
- PM to intern coming via college (it's like a forced internship that counts as another subject for the degree).1 -
*Executed maven build*
Me: What's this "no tests found?"
Senior: Nevermind it's not important. Just check if your code works.2 -
Solving merge conflict on version control takes too much time, so let's allow only guy to check-in and everyone else work offline keeping several old style working copy with (hell) numbers of backup. Once done everyone sends files to check-in guy.
-
-we have a huge nested object to represent this functionality.
- just save it in the DB under "settingsx" column as a stirng. No need for different columns
We had to parse it multiple times in the client and the server.
After a year in the company, I've managed to convince the team leader to move to json object at least2 -
"Oh just promote the fixes already! Don't worry, it won't break other stuff."
Not the worst advice maybe but certainly something that got me doing a lot of rework. I freakin' hate rework.2 -
Setter and getter are anti-patterns. Eradicate all of them from your code with no mercy and you'll see your code magically transform for the better.5
-
Suffix parameters with _, so you can distinguish them from the attributes.
I wonder what IDE the person who has given me that advice uses... -
2 Core aws box.
LoadAvg 19.76 (over 1 min)
Other staff members:
"Thats fine, it normally does that.
Is it still running? It's fine" -
Java Background "Use interfaces for model classes"
We should basically write the getters and setters in an interface. Programming against interfaces is a pracitct that is undisputed a must. But using interfaces for your model class c'mon. -
On an interview they told me to do a simple Todo app with angular and one of them said cheat if you want but just get it don't in a week! 😒1
-
Bad perf is fine, our users are old and used to slow software.
BUT FUCKING WHY ARE YOU PAYING MY FIRM TONS OF MONEY TO REWRITE IF ITS TO BE JUST AS SLOW?!?!?! -
"U wanna create new module? Just copy paste this file and several file, then rename it to your new module", but that each of that file is contain thousand LOC, then i realize all of module created use the same way.
-
R&D Lead Architect: "We want this next gen platform to be all AWS."
Us: "Alright, can we talk about automated testing?"
R&D Lead Architect: "Sure, for automated tests you'll want to just dump events from your system into a flat file on S3. It's readable with Microsoft Excel."
Us now: still here.
R&D Lead Architect now: not here.
:) -
Now I have a problem
Do I stick them now or I do it on the laptop I'll buy next month?
I want to stick them and show the world this magnificent app!!
Thanks dfox & trogus!
You made my life better
3 -
-assigning me a new API integration
-It should be fairly easy. Possibly in a click of a button.
-3 weeks later... End up with outdated documentation and a call with an Indian accent guy (no offence it just end up that way)
Please chose very carefully what to use and research it very well! Trust nobody but yourself! -
"You should not bother about making your code so clean, I want features not pretty files"
As I'm leaving this job next week, someone will have to continue this project after me
I think we can say that my boss sucks -
"This is an easy task, call me when it's done"
5 months later
"well the test of senduser didn't pass"
Me: "this wasn't on the docu"
"oh, let me rewrite it" -
"dont bother with unit tests we dont have budget for those" - still paying the price for naively following that one, every svn merge is a bastard now1
-
Pretty new in my company.
Every time i ask something like vcs or other stuff they just tell me do it this or that way, because it's 'grown historically'... I can't hear that anymore... They just don't give advice and show me how to do stuff but not explain... And always say the two words... I can't hear them anymore... -
Usually this is somehow fluent what is "the worst" advice, since it rather depends on context, and contexts changes.
There is, though, one thing that was bad idea from the start, on so many angles that even now I believe it is actually " the worst " idea you can have : imagine you have a team, you have work to do, and, as usual, there are people there, and people have their goals and opinions. The worst thing you can do there is to engage with politics, either team- or company-wide.
I was specialist from Poland in German automotive branch. Cars, trucks, AI, this kind of stuff. ( It just sounds interesting, trust me )
Small company working as subcontractor.
The first thing I though is something like, why this or that person is going to tell me what to do or why is he allowed to rat me out or talk behind my back... so this guy told me this is how it is around here and you either play it or suck for everyone. So I went with it, if they want to fuck with me, I will fuck with them.
So fast it went House Of Cards kind of way and in the bad way kind of way. Instead of getting progress we were busy doing political stuff, usually law related, like finding each other misconducts, and there were no end to it. As I had most experience I with systems and stuff we were doing, outcome was pretty good for me, but after some time it escalated to such size that atmosphere was unbearable and I was so stressed and tired of this shit I left. It's miracle that management tolerated this so far. People were as toxic as nuclear waste site (or dota/lol players)
So far the conclusion is to sometimes suck it up once in a while or just clear the atmosphere as fast as possible. Otherwise you will wade in shit up to your chin for very, very long and it is not really healthy on the long run...
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